Current Affairs The Labour Party

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dead_soft said:
So desperately worried by him it's bizarre.
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Indeed, but it’s the publicity they give to their own incompetence that is the most surprising thing, even after all the years of them being incompetent.

“Let’s all vote him out, that will work” - it would have, when he was LOTO for five years and the PLP could have entirely legitimately taken him out of that role. Did they do that? No.

Now however all it will do is result in IND gain from LAB at the next election, with him sailing serenely on.
 
I watched the Blair/Brown BBC documentary over the last few days. Good watch for anyone interested in politics. Love them or loath them they knew how to govern and imo they were a lot more component than recent governments (and labour opposition).

Whilst Blair wasn't as left as some would like (me included), they did plough a lot of money back into public services. If it hadn't been for Iraq I think public opinion of that government would be a lot different to what it is today.

At the time, a shift to the centre was needed. Labour were going nowhere, but the big advantage they had was they had no predecessors to be compared with in doing so. Starmer doesn't have that luxury so controlling the left of his party is far more difficult than it was in the 90s. Whilst I get the logic, it won't work for Starmer. The only solution is to find a middle ground which I fear won't happen any time soon. Quite frankly labour's situation at the moment is embarrassing.
 
sbbefc said:
I watched the Blair/Brown BBC documentary over the last few days. Good watch for anyone interested in politics. Love them or loath them they knew how to govern and imo they were a lot more component than recent governments (and labour opposition).

Whilst Blair wasn't as left as some would like (me included), they did plough a lot of money back into public services. If it hadn't been for Iraq I think public opinion of that government would be a lot different to what it is today.

At the time, a shift to the centre was needed. Labour were going nowhere, but the big advantage they had was they had no predecessors to be compared with in doing so. Starmer doesn't have that luxury so controlling the left of his party is far more difficult than it was in the 90s. Whilst I get the logic, it won't work for Starmer. The only solution is to find a middle ground which I fear won't happen any time soon. Quite frankly labour's situation at the moment is embarrassing.
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People laughed when I said we've never had it so good than we did under Blair/ Nu Labour.

Im yet to be convinced that I was wrong with whats followed.
 
sbbefc said:
I watched the Blair/Brown BBC documentary over the last few days. Good watch for anyone interested in politics. Love them or loath them they knew how to govern and imo they were a lot more component than recent governments (and labour opposition).

Whilst Blair wasn't as left as some would like (me included), they did plough a lot of money back into public services. If it hadn't been for Iraq I think public opinion of that government would be a lot different to what it is today.

At the time, a shift to the centre was needed. Labour were going nowhere, but the big advantage they had was they had no predecessors to be compared with in doing so. Starmer doesn't have that luxury so controlling the left of his party is far more difficult than it was in the 90s. Whilst I get the logic, it won't work for Starmer. The only solution is to find a middle ground which I fear won't happen any time soon. Quite frankly labour's situation at the moment is embarrassing.
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TBF Blair had the support of the left before he took office, he just shredded it with the way he behaved / what he did during his time as PM (especially over Iraq) and many just quit.

The 1997 Manifesto let’s not forget promised windfall taxes on certain firms, something that would be deemed as absolute Marxism now (by all the people who don’t know what Marxism is).

In many ways it was the great lost opportunity of our times - he had the mandate to make this country more fair, open and honest and he decided to make himself rich instead.
 
tsubaki said:
TBF Blair had the support of the left before he took office, he just shredded it with the way he behaved / what he did during his time as PM (especially over Iraq) and many just quit.

The 1997 Manifesto let’s not forget promised windfall taxes on certain firms, something that would be deemed as absolute Marxism now (by all the people who don’t know what Marxism is).

In many ways it was the great lost opportunity of our times - he had the mandate to make this country more fair, open and honest and he decided to make himself rich instead.
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Fair points.

Out of interest, I know he's a very rich now, but what specifically did he do during his premiership that made him rich?
 
sbbefc said:
Fair points.

Out of interest, I know he's a very rich now, but what specifically did he do during his premiership that made him rich?
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I’d say ramping up PFI schemes (which were an invention of Majors government but expanded massively under Labour) and not doing anything to halt tax lulz disguised as accountancy. They’ve both made huge sums for some firms and thanks have not been slow in coming.
 
sbbefc said:
I watched the Blair/Brown BBC documentary over the last few days. Good watch for anyone interested in politics. Love them or loath them they knew how to govern and imo they were a lot more component than recent governments (and labour opposition).

Whilst Blair wasn't as left as some would like (me included), they did plough a lot of money back into public services. If it hadn't been for Iraq I think public opinion of that government would be a lot different to what it is today.

At the time, a shift to the centre was needed. Labour were going nowhere, but the big advantage they had was they had no predecessors to be compared with in doing so. Starmer doesn't have that luxury so controlling the left of his party is far more difficult than it was in the 90s. Whilst I get the logic, it won't work for Starmer. The only solution is to find a middle ground which I fear won't happen any time soon. Quite frankly labour's situation at the moment is embarrassing.
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It's hard to understand Blair's re-invention of the labour party when you just look at the 1997 election, seems like a gigantic over-correction given the Tories were a shambling corpse of a party by that time. A sledgehammer change to crack a walnut of an election.

But the 1992 election was a true sickener. Neil Kinnock is not everyone's cup of tea but he speaks like Barack Obama compared to John Major, and the Tory's stronghold of economic policy was absolutely in the bin early 90s. Labour win that election in any sane world. The fact the Tories actually returned a majority was shocking and presented Blair and co with the mandate they wanted for change.

John Smith's more incremental modernisation was the actual right answer for the long term, but it's all easy in hindsight.
 
roydo said:
Until he got over excited at the infamous "Sheffield Wednesday" rally. That is what did for him imo.

Agree 100% re John Smith. A dreadful waste of what might have been. Even Major acknowledged he was an "Opponent, but never an enemy".
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Kinnock was a lightweight and completely unprincipled. Also, I'm amazed that the nepotism which was characteristic of him is never brought up.
 
Unfortunately, it all seems like de ja vu. For those old enough to remember how Labour had to change and offer a viable alternative to the Thatcherite tories, the same has to happen again.

Blair wasn’t brilliant if you are left wing but he certInly wasn’t Johnson.

You have to present a leader that the public believe and trust regardless of party affiliation.

The Manchester geezer wins Labour the next election, Starmer doesn’t.
 
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