Current Affairs The General Election

[catcherintherye]

Cant work out if this is worse for tories or labour? seems to have snookered tories a bit there?

Much worse for Tories. The guys threat to Labour is overplayed.

 

[Joey66]

One thing is for sure - "Brexit means Brexit" has absolutely no meaning anymore.

Nobody can seriously now say that everyone who voted Leave knew what they were voting for, because the two leaders of Leave now think Leave means two completely different things.

One things for sure Labour's promise of a Brexit negotiation in 6 months with the EU then put it back to the people is ludicrous as they will relay to vote Remain - its a killer policy absolute laughable .....
Also Diane Abbott for Chancellor lol

 

[catcherintherye]

Oh it's much worse for the Tories, but he's gambling - correctly - that the polls will narrow and Johnson will panic.

As much as I loathe his politics, what he's done here is remarkably clever. He's targeting Labour voters who'd never vote Tory, whilst threatening the Tories with total destruction if they don't get the majority needed to get Brexit over the line.

Johnson's only hope is to paint the Brexit Party as ruining Brexit, but unfortunately for him Farage's ideologically pure and easy to understand approach will cut through with an awful lot of people.

Remember, Farage's only reason for being is to push for a 'clean' Brexit - he's politically irrelevant right now if some form of Brexit happens. So it's completely in his interests to take this line.

Absolutely spot on with all of that mate.

Farage is the most talented politician of the last 15 years. In my lifetime (too young to remember Thatcher) only Blair comes close.

He intuitively understands what the tory voter wants to hear, and knows how to cream off support from them. He also instinctively gets the bar of where to pitch things to cause challenges and difficulties.

That pitch today has done exactly that. He has seen the underlying weakness of the Tories and called it out. He has said the deal wint survive 6 weeks of scrutiny and I think he is right. He knows if the ERG start breaking voters will tumble his was. He has also put the weakness of Johnsons deal front and centre now of any campaign.

It's a great demand. It's one Johnson can never give him but one which I imagine will gain resonance amongst rank and file Tories.

The idea this charlatan is ever going to do what's right for the conservatives has been mooted for multiple elections and will never happen.

As a final aside the trump phone call only strengthens his hand. In my view the only play Johnson has left is to tell Trump to go sling it. Oddly if he did that, I think he would win the election.

 

[Xizor]

Also Diane Abbott for Chancellor lol

She's Shadow Home Sec you berk.

 

[Tubey]

One things for sure Labour's promise of a Brexit negotiation in 6 months with the EU then put it back to the people is ludicrous as they will relay to vote Remain - its a killer policy absolute laughable .....
Also Diane Abbott for Chancellor lol

Might want to get on the ol' Google and think this latest nugget of pure stupidity through...

 

[peteblue]

Much worse for Tories. The guys threat to Labour is overplayed.

No one knows yet. IMO, Tories will vote for Tories. In Tory Remain areas they may go toward LD but definitely not Labour or Brexit Party. In Tory leave areas, the Tories will still vote for Tories because they hate Corbyn. In Labour Remain areas Labour will still be voted in. In some Labour Leave areas, now we have a debate, because some the Tories will never win but the BP just might with conservative support....but who knows.......

 

[Minimeister]

‘Politics of envy’, ‘stifling ambition’. Absolute nonsense. Asking the ultra-rich to pay more towards the society which allowed them to be ultra rich does not come from a place of envy. It comes from fairness.

Some on here also quick to dismiss and laugh at ideas on homing the homeless. Why? At least he is mentioning one of the biggest and most shameful problems in our country right now. Surely we can do something about it as a society? I have my reservations with Corbyn despite being broadly in line with his politics, but good on him for trying to find solutions to something like homelessness despite knowing it will be scoffed at and laughed at by people like some on here who are more concerned about their taxes going up.

Great post mate. I'd also add Corbyn is a great weapon (oo er) to be used by the Tories on here when in fact they're only worried about their own self interests. How can anyone be taken seriously when they warn about what the economy will be like under him when they vote to leave the EU. Baffles the mind...

 

[catcherintherye]

No one knows yet. IMO, Tories will vote for Tories. In Tory Remain areas they may go toward LD but definitely not Labour or Brexit Party. In Tory leave areas, the Tories will still vote for Tories because they hate Corbyn. In Labour Remain areas Labour will still be voted in. In some Labour Leave areas, now we have a debate, because some the Tories will never win but the BP just might with conservative support....but who knows.......

I think that's a pretty nuanced take.

Trying to be objective it's not unreasonable to state that the Brexit deal agreed is a lot softer than Johnson suggested. There has undoubtedly been some relief he achieved it (not helped by opposition parties wrongly asserting he had no interest in doing so). It has been a difficult line of attack for Farage.

That Trump call though is significant. As is his pitch the deal should be taken off the table. He will have a long time to scrutinise it, and pull it apart. Ultimately we don't know if that will gain traction amongst leave (particularly right leaning leave voters). Farage has shown he is skilled at gaining traction amongst those people.

Johnson has to win some leave seats off Labour. Theres absolutely no doubt, that in those areas voting for Brand BXP is easier than brand Conservative.

 

[neil999]

No one knows yet. IMO, Tories will vote for Tories. In Tory Remain areas they may go toward LD but definitely not Labour or Brexit Party. In Tory leave areas, the Tories will still vote for Tories because they hate Corbyn. In Labour Remain areas Labour will still be voted in. In some Labour Leave areas, now we have a debate, because some the Tories will never win but the BP just might with conservative support....but who knows.......

Its very difficult to predict, the near total obliteration of the lib dems a couple of elections ago wasnt predicted i dont think

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

No one knows yet. IMO, Tories will vote for Tories. In Tory Remain areas they may go toward LD but definitely not Labour or Brexit Party. In Tory leave areas, the Tories will still vote for Tories because they hate Corbyn. In Labour Remain areas Labour will still be voted in. In some Labour Leave areas, now we have a debate, because some the Tories will never win but the BP just might with conservative support....but who knows.......

We do know, Johnson has to drop his baby, the Brexit deal, stepping away from that would be awful considering the blame he has put on parliament in trying to stop it...
And there is good reason why Conservative and Labour have stood away from pre election pacts, the electorate don't like it...

 

[tsubaki]

Absolutely spot on with all of that mate.

Farage is the most talented politician of the last 15 years. In my lifetime (too young to remember Thatcher) only Blair comes close.

He intuitively understands what the tory voter wants to hear, and knows how to cream off support from them. He also instinctively gets the bar of where to pitch things to cause challenges and difficulties.

That pitch today has done exactly that. He has seen the underlying weakness of the Tories and called it out. He has said the deal wint survive 6 weeks of scrutiny and I think he is right. He knows if the ERG start breaking voters will tumble his was. He has also put the weakness of Johnsons deal front and centre now of any campaign.

It's a great demand. It's one Johnson can never give him but one which I imagine will gain resonance amongst rank and file Tories.

The idea this charlatan is ever going to do what's right for the conservatives has been mooted for multiple elections and will never happen.

As a final aside the trump phone call only strengthens his hand. In my view the only play Johnson has left is to tell Trump to go sling it. Oddly if he did that, I think he would win the election.

Not sure anyone could be described as talented politically when they’ve never managed to get elected to Parliament despite repeated attempts.

All he has done is become a figurehead for those who realised the post-1997 Tories were vulnerable to a movement from further right, that PR in European elections allowed them to create such a movement and then got them elected. Several bad Tory leaders have then panicked and tacked to the right (hard right now) - which was probably the intention all along.

Farage has after all been given a platform that no other politician has (his own show), he has access to loads of cash (witness how quickly the BP was set up, which is remarkable for a party with no members), and was tight with the US Right even before Trump got elected. Even today, there he is dangling the danger of splitting the right and promising to make it go away in exchange for a veto on everything and a hard Brexit.

The bloke is deeply suspect.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I fear you are looking at this from the wrong point of view. Someone who earns a lot of money may be paying over 100k tax a year, a fair old chunk in NI, they probably have a bigger house so likely paying more council tax, they probably buy more stuff so pay more VAT, road tax, when they die they will pay more in inheritance tax.

These people might run/invest in businesses that allow others to earn and pay tax and NI. So at what point are they being selfish if they are putting back in far more than the average Joe like you or I?

There is a tipping point where if you take too much then they will leave/close down businesses and live off savings as the risks are not worth the rewards or aggressively seek to avoid paying tax through any loopholes. If you take the money that all these high earners put back in out of the system that doesn't help the poorest in society, it makes things worse.

As Corbyn has targeted these people there is next to no chance he will be the next PM in a standalone government, so we will see if all the other parties will be on the same wavelength if he is PM of a coalition.

To put it another way, what would you say would be a fair rate of tax then above what it is currently?

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Agree, but imho changing the low taxes statement to reasonable taxes. 45% I think is justified on the very large earners on part of their income.

Fair rate would reflect well financed and well run public services, this includes NHS Councils Police Fire service etc.

 

[catcherintherye]

No one knows yet. IMO, Tories will vote for Tories. In Tory Remain areas they may go toward LD but definitely not Labour or Brexit Party. In Tory leave areas, the Tories will still vote for Tories because they hate Corbyn. In Labour Remain areas Labour will still be voted in. In some Labour Leave areas, now we have a debate, because some the Tories will never win but the BP just might with conservative support....but who knows.......

I would as well though, that the BXP have never won a Labour seat in a by election (much easier) neither have UKIP so I can't see that. They are a roadblock to the Cons in the Midlands and North though, and with that will likely be Johnsons chances of a majority gone. Hence the strong bargaining chip they have and why they are playing their hand strong.

The fact that the Tories have done all sorts of weak deals to remain in power means increasingly people can smell that weakness on them.

 

[Moomin]

One things for sure Labour's promise of a Brexit negotiation in 6 months with the EU then put it back to the people is ludicrous as they will relay to vote Remain - its a killer policy absolute laughable .....
Also Diane Abbott for Chancellor lol

Joey wrong yet again.

What a surprise.

 

[Joey66]

Joey wrong yet again.

What a surprise.

It was a joke about Abbott lighten up fgs.....