Current Affairs The General Election

[catcherintherye]

Its a nonsense to pretend that the problems in the UK can be solved by taxing richer people a bit more. Its utterly ridiculous. The tax take is generally fine. Its how its spent.

Why is it nonsense or ridiculous to say the problems in funding levels for the public sector can be solved by increasing taxes?

On what basis do you think the current amount we have to spend is "fine"? Surely if hospitals are being declared in a state of emergency, or the UN are here looking at the poverty we have it would suggest that the amount of money available is not "fine"?

We are having to add to national debt (which has massively increased during the last 5 years) to maintain spending levels at what they are at, which would again suggest to me that the current tax take is not "fine".

I mean I can have the argument that you disagree with the principle of it. Or that you don't believe maintaining public services is worthwhile.I'm struggling to square the idea though, that problems of lack of funding for public services being solved with more funds for public services by increasing tax take is "utterly ridiculous" a rather unusual take.

I should add, in many countries people are taxed much higher than what Labour are currently proposing. They have excellent health care systems, schools, public services etc. The idea that we've crossed the rubicon for suggesting some taxation is raised via corporation tax or income on higher earners when it's fairly standard practice across the continent to be at proposed rates is again something I find hard to square with being "utterly ridiculous."

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why is it nonsense or ridiculous to say the problems in funding levels for the public sector can be solved by increasing taxes?

On what basis do you think the current amount we have to spend is "fine"? Surely if hospitals are being declared in a state of emergency, or the UN are here looking at the poverty we have it would suggest that the amount of money available is not "fine"?

We are having to add to national debt (which has massively increased during the last 5 years) to maintain spending levels at what they are at, which would again suggest to me that the current tax take is not "fine".

I mean I can have the argument that you disagree with the principle of it. Or that you don't believe maintaining public services is worthwhile.I'm struggling to square the idea though, that problems of lack of funding for public services being solved with more funds for public services by increasing tax take is "utterly ridiculous" a rather unusual take.

I should add, in many countries people are taxed much higher than what Labour are currently proposing. They have excellent health care systems, schools, public services etc. The idea that we've crossed the rubicon for suggesting some taxation is raised via corporation tax or income on higher earners when it's fairly standard practice across the continent to be at proposed rates is again something I find hard to square with being "utterly ridiculous."

France have higher taxes than us and are a very similar country in many ways. Are things noticeably different?

 

[catcherintherye]

Its going to be like this wherever he goes.

This is an utterly mental strategy from Johnson. If they continue in this vein they will flunk this election, perhaps more spectacularly than May.

His one area of strength is on Brexit. People will vote for him to get Brexit through. It's his best line. People V Parliament. Keep repeating that. Hope that the election can remain as narrowly on that as possible.

Labour are desperate to make it about the NHS. It's an area they have always been miles ahead of the Tories on, even when Labour have been really weak all around. If I was advising the Conservative Party, one of your big aims would be to avoid any discussion around the NHS. They can't win on it. Just get it out of news cycles.

This is before heightened tensions about it being sold off, discussions with Donald Trump (who's openly bragging about discussing it's future) and the expose on C4. It's before sort of the idiotic wing of the ERG want to press the issue (NHS privatisation is their clause 4). It's utter disaster walking around those sites. Walking into an open goal for Labour.

I sense they are doing it for 2 reasons. One is Johnsons ego. I think he believes he can be the man to turn around what all Tories have failed. Like May before him wanting to walk into norther constituencies and win. It will fall on it's face. He's not competent enough to win on that ground. Secondly because Cummings hates the Conservative Party and the establishment, and wants to get one over them. I also think he's the sort of guy who has 1 strategy, which he will rinse and repeat. Much as he might want him to be, Corbyn is not the same as fighting the remain alliance and needs different questions.

If Johnson's plan is to take Labour on via public spending, then that will fall flat on it's face.

 

[catcherintherye]

France have higher taxes than us and are a very similar country in many ways. Are things noticeably different?

No not massively. Which surely states that upping taxes in line with France would hardly be "utter nonsense" would it? It would be the policy of Emanual Macron, who is about as mainstream and centrist as you can get in politics currently.

I understand the ideological disagreements. I understand for people that they don't either value or want public services so much. I'm not sure it's nonsense to suggest though, that altering fiscal policy and revenues brought in isn't a feasible potential solution to some of the difficulties faced.

It's the same as altering the interest rates. Whatever I may think of it is one solution to the problem. It's also one that can't come as a great surprise to certain political traditions. For Labour, seeking to increase tax revenues to justify public spending is a fairly straightforward move which most Labour leaders have advocated.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No not massively. Which surely states that upping taxes in line with France would hardly be "utter nonsense" would it? It would be the policy of Emanual Macron, who is about as mainstream and centrist as you can get in politics currently.

I understand the ideological disagreements. I understand for people that they don't either value or want public services so much. I'm not sure it's nonsense to suggest though, that altering fiscal policy and revenues brought in isn't a feasible potential solution to some of the difficulties faced.

It's the same as altering the interest rates. Whatever I may think of it is one solution to the problem. It's also one that can't come as a great surprise to certain political traditions. For Labour, seeking to increase tax revenues to justify public spending is a fairly straightforward move which most Labour leaders have advocated.

It's starting from where you are. Macron inherited things from the French Socialist party, so had a high tax base already. He had a mandate for change, but accepts it should be slow and gradual.

Corbyn is inheriting a liberal market economy and seems to want to change it completely. With Brexit as well it would be chaos.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's starting from where you are. Macron inherited things from the French Socialist party, so had a high tax base already. He had a mandate for change, but accepts it should be slow and gradual.

Corbyn is inheriting a liberal market economy and seems to want to change it completely. With Brexit as well it would be chaos.

Do you think people had these same conversations in 1979 and 1945 in Labour and Cons? Also would you say there is an appetite for change?

I personally think there is. I don't think that means automatically to the left either, but people want a radical departure from what we have. I understand that in a lot of ways you want to rebuild the orthodoxy that has dominated for many years and avoid making too many changes too quickly. My concern is we are past that point now. If we cannot offer people hope of a fairer world, with some changes within it, we could see a very nasty kick to the right occurring.

Either way though, I'm sure we could both agree, discussing fiscal policy in relation to amending tax rates while potentially disagreeable is hardly utter nonsense. It's a fairly standard measure used by governments to implement policy.

 

[Mr. White]

3 words
Jacob Rees Mogg.
How people who don't own their own castle can contemplate voting for the party who appointed him as leader of the House of commons is to me an endorsement of the theory, control the press and you control the electorate.

Absolute and utter nonsense.......

I know that you (probably) don't mean that literally, but you don't have to 'own a castle', or be rich, or be well off, or even just be OK, to vote Conservative. So many Conservative voters fall outside of such an ignorant stereotype.

And the press don't control the electorate, the electorate control the press. Do you really think that if The Times, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail et al, suddenly switched parties and moved to the left, that all of their readers would simple just change their minds and follow? Of course they wouldn't. They'd just find another news source to read.

 

[peteblue]

Absolute and utter nonsense.......

I know that you (probably) don't mean that literally, but you don't have to 'own a castle', or be rich, or be well off, or even just be OK, to vote Conservative. So many Conservative voters fall outside of such an ignorant stereotype.

And the press don't control the electorate, the electorate control the press. Do you really think that if The Times, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail et al, suddenly switched parties and moved to the left, that all of their readers would simple just change their minds and follow? Of course they wouldn't. They'd just find another news source to read.

Careful, common sense is not really appreciated on here......

 

[ToffeeTim]

Its a nonsense to pretend that the problems in the UK can be solved by taxing richer people a bit more. Its utterly ridiculous. The tax take is generally fine. Its how its spent.

Economic evidence also suggests that higher tax rates regularly reduce the amount of revenue you actually bring in. People move, don't go into business or work less.

I think our current rates of tax are reasonable, but I'd look to lower them a bit more at the bottom end.

We need to spend our money much better. It's not just always about pumping more money in.

 

[Seanjd]

‘Politics of envy’, ‘stifling ambition’. Absolute nonsense. Asking the ultra-rich to pay more towards the society which allowed them to be ultra rich does not come from a place of envy. It comes from fairness.

Some on here also quick to dismiss and laugh at ideas on homing the homeless. Why? At least he is mentioning one of the biggest and most shameful problems in our country right now. Surely we can do something about it as a society? I have my reservations with Corbyn despite being broadly in line with his politics, but good on him for trying to find solutions to something like homelessness despite knowing it will be scoffed at and laughed at by people like some on here who are more concerned about their taxes going up.

 

[Seanjd]

Absolute and utter nonsense.......

I know that you (probably) don't mean that literally, but you don't have to 'own a castle', or be rich, or be well off, or even just be OK, to vote Conservative. So many Conservative voters fall outside of such an ignorant stereotype.

And the press don't control the electorate, the electorate control the press. Do you really think that if The Times, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail et al, suddenly switched parties and moved to the left, that all of their readers would simple just change their minds and follow? Of course they wouldn't. They'd just find another news source to read.

The press has been predominantly right wing for many years. It’s entrenched.

 

[Seanjd]

Economic evidence also suggests that higher tax rates regularly reduce the amount of revenue you actually bring in. People move, don't go into business or work less.

I think our current rates of tax are reasonable, but I'd look to lower them a bit more at the bottom end.

We need to spend our money much better. It's not just always about pumping more money in.

Would genuinely like to see some good evidence of higher tax rates equating to lower tax revenue if you have some?

 

[Aberblue]

Absolute and utter nonsense.......

I know that you (probably) don't mean that literally, but you don't have to 'own a castle', or be rich, or be well off, or even just be OK, to vote Conservative. So many Conservative voters fall outside of such an ignorant stereotype.

And the press don't control the electorate, the electorate control the press. Do you really think that if The Times, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail et al, suddenly switched parties and moved to the left, that all of their readers would simple just change their minds and follow? Of course they wouldn't. They'd just find another news source to read.

Surely you must accept that the daily litany of anti EU stories, many of them demonstrably false, in papers like the Mail, Sun, Telegraph, Express etc over decades must have had an effect on the electorate?

 

[Blues Harp]

Absolute and utter nonsense.......

I know that you (probably) don't mean that literally, but you don't have to 'own a castle', or be rich, or be well off, or even just be OK, to vote Conservative. So many Conservative voters fall outside of such an ignorant stereotype.

And the press don't control the electorate, the electorate control the press. Do you really think that if The Times, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail et al, suddenly switched parties and moved to the left, that all of their readers would simple just change their minds and follow? Of course they wouldn't. They'd just find another news source to read.

Absolute garbage...the rightwing press tell the electorate how to vote....support the Tories and the ukip racists and folk actually believe the smears made continually against any other left of centre party ....the scum readers voted for the red bliar Tories in their droves because Murdoch told them to.... You read the scum?

 

[Tin-Tin]

Needs to be more of this.