Current Affairs The General Election

Voting Intentions

  • Labour

    Votes: 209 61.1%
  • Tories

    Votes: 30 8.8%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 20 5.8%
  • Brexit Gubbins

    Votes: 8 2.3%
  • Greens

    Votes: 8 2.3%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Change UK, if that's their current moniker

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • DUP

    Votes: 3 0.9%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 2.6%
  • Alliance

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • SDLP

    Votes: 2 0.6%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • Some fringe party with a catchy name

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • A plague on all your houses

    Votes: 32 9.4%

  • Total voters
    342
  • Poll closed .
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Careful, common sense is not really appreciated on here......

Well @Mr. White will fit in well then.
There was no suggestion that people only vote conservative if they are well off. It was that it is voting against your best interests if you are not. It's a party aimed at personal wealth and a greed is good mentality. They tried to shift from this briefly but are now back on top of it.

The press most definitely do have a form of control over the electorate. We are influenced by the media around us, and we have an implicit bond of trust with our chosen information sources that guides our beliefs and views.
 
Well @Mr. White will fit in well then.
There was no suggestion that people only vote conservative if they are well off. It was that it is voting against your best interests if you are not. It's a party aimed at personal wealth and a greed is good mentality. They tried to shift from this briefly but are now back on top of it.

The press most definitely do have a form of control over the electorate. We are influenced by the media around us, and we have an implicit bond of trust with our chosen information sources that guides our beliefs and views.

Why is personal wealth such a bad thing mate?

It's not impossible to better yourself and have compassion for the less well off at the same time. It's not a zero sum game. I don't want a world where no matter how good I am, I can't better myself - I can't take personal responsibility. I'd rather alleviate poverty by increasing opportunity rather than limiting it.

And the media exists to sell itself. It doesnt shape; it reflects. People by and large read what they want to read. They supply a demand.
 
‘Politics of envy’, ‘stifling ambition’. Absolute nonsense. Asking the ultra-rich to pay more towards the society which allowed them to be ultra rich does not come from a place of envy. It comes from fairness.

The rich will pay more in taxes, that is just how our taxation system works (as long as the avoidance loopholes are closed/reduced).

If you place too much burden on them though that they think is unfair, what is stopping people with the means to move elsewhere? Thus whatever they were contributing disappears, meaning you have actually lost income into the government coffers. It is a balancing act to ensure that the rich contribute the most but not so much that they start seeking out tax havens.
 
If you place too much burden on them though that they think is unfair, what is stopping people with the means to move elsewhere? Thus whatever they were contributing disappears, meaning you have actually lost income into the government coffers. It is a balancing act to ensure that the rich contribute the most but not so much that they start seeking out tax havens.
They can leave, the UK does not need selfish people... Tax is about rebalancing wealth inequality and there ain't nowhere where wealth inequality increases cohesive society, it may have escaped attention's, the UK is far from happy these days... I wonder why!

As expected those staunch remainers soon parked Brexit and started looking inwards, me myself and I.

When Corbyn does get in anyone feeling compelled to emigrate because the new boat is few centimetres shorter because of tax , the first PM I get and as long as they fit in my estate I'll run them and their direct family to the English airport to begin their new life, may I suggest Peshawar region, no state so no taxation, fund everything yourself, nobody gets anything unless they have own monies, the libertarian dream...
 
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Is the Economics Editor of the Financial Times qualified to discuss economics, I wonder?

But.... but.... the Duke of Westminster is a self-made man!


If daddy's little princess (the girl who's got where she has because on the rape and mutilation of poor women) had actually let him make the point, I suspect he'd have said that we shouldn't have billionaires while we have children living in poverty.

She'd have still pulled the offended card to that though. She doesn't care what conditions they live in. She is reported as calling the poor women who contributed to her own family's wealth as her dads "whores".She clearly wants to be a billionaire, and clearly no amount of sacrifice, pain, exploitation, brutality, trauma for poor people to have to go through to allow her to do so is too great. It's written all over her face and in every tenet of her voice.

Quite how this is allowed from a publicly funded broadcaster I'll never know. It's about time somebody put her on the spot and made her justify her actions,when she starts getting offended at the notion of a slightly fairer society.
 
Would genuinely like to see some good evidence of higher tax rates equating to lower tax revenue if you have some?

The theory behind the idea is the laffer curve where there is a point that increasing the rate lowers your tax take.

Corporation tax rate is down around 10% in a decade yet receipts are at their highest ever level. I work in tax and definitely believe it's true from my experience.

Screenshot_20191101-073623.webp
 


Is the Economics Editor of the Financial Times qualified to discuss economics, I wonder?

But.... but.... the Duke of Westminster is a self-made man!


Thought you'd like this:


On the bloke in the tweet however, it just seems a morally slippery slope when some third party is deciding whether the way you earned your money is just or not. Very slippery.
 
If daddy's little princess (the girl who's got where she has because on the rape and mutilation of poor women) had actually let him make the point, I suspect he'd have said that we shouldn't have billionaires while we have children living in poverty.

She'd have still pulled the offended card to that though. She doesn't care what conditions they live in. She is reported as calling the poor women who contributed to her own family's wealth as her dads "whores".She clearly wants to be a billionaire, and clearly no amount of sacrifice, pain, exploitation, brutality, trauma for poor people to have to go through to allow her to do so is too great. It's written all over her face and in every tenet of her voice.

Quite how this is allowed from a publicly funded broadcaster I'll never know. It's about time somebody put her on the spot and made her justify her actions,when she starts getting offended at the notion of a slightly fairer society.

Mate, in threads that can often descend into snark, you're always very reasonable in the way you debate (which is awesome btw), but that's a grim line of attack to take. It's hard to imagine she was personally involved in her parents grisly business, and in a socially mobile sense, you could even argue that it's good that she's done alright for herself despite having seemingly morally bankrupt parents.
 
The theory behind the idea is the laffer curve where there is a point that increasing the rate lowers your tax take.

Corporation tax rate is down around 10% in a decade yet receipts are at their highest ever level. I work in tax and definitely believe it's true from my experience.

View attachment 70106
Wasn't this skewed by accountants holding back for the new lower rate, depressing the previous year and exaggerating the following?
 
Absolute and utter nonsense.......

I know that you (probably) don't mean that literally, but you don't have to 'own a castle', or be rich, or be well off, or even just be OK, to vote Conservative. So many Conservative voters fall outside of such an ignorant stereotype.

And the press don't control the electorate, the electorate control the press. Do you really think that if The Times, The Telegraph, The Daily Mail et al, suddenly switched parties and moved to the left, that all of their readers would simple just change their minds and follow? Of course they wouldn't. They'd just find another news source to read.

Never affected Murdoch sales when he switched to back New Labour.
 
Thought you'd like this:


The obvious answer is to raise taxes on the rich, which is in fact a very popular position right now. Politically, however, raising taxes has proved difficult, because the affluent are well represented in Washington and because there has been a persistent belief among political elites (not very well supported by the evidence) that higher taxes on the rich will destroy entrepreneurialism. Senator Elizabeth Warren (who’s been advised by Saez and Zucman) wants to test the idea that major new taxes on the affluent are a political non-starter. We’ll see if she gets the chance!

Indeed. You should read Zucman's books, if you haven't.

My professional concern (to say nothing of the moral catastrophe and devastating blow to future productivity that austerity always brings) is the sheer economic incompetence of it all.

It is nearly impossible to deliver stable returns for worthy clients (mostly pension funds in my case) because, frankly, the rich have way too much money and they are hoarding it all. Corporations are sitting on unprecedented piles of case, and rather than invest in capex as the Laffler generation of economists assumed, they are instead buying back their shares (which boosts management compensation through the roof), or using it to fund mergers in order to eliminate competition and raise prices. Or, like Apple, literally just sitting on it because there is so much that have no idea what to do with it all.

Meanwhile, the transit services decline, hospitals close, schools can't stay open on Friday, wages stagnate and thus the high street withers, in other words, the real drivers of economic growth drive to a halt... and all the while we are doing nothing whatsoever to try to prevent looming global ecological meltdown. Because taking the Duke of Wellington's 10x inherited hoard and using it to do something useful would be the greater evil.

Again, never mind the moral case - the status quo is fiscally incompetent. Even if you think the poor are all neanderthal northern Brexit simpletons who deserve every misery you can inflict on them, the Tory agenda (and especially the Liberal Democrat agenda, because Javid at least is starting to get it) is an utter disaster for financial markets.

As I've explained elsewhere several times, the Liberal Democrat and Conservative/Eurozone decision to deliberately contract the economy at the height of the worst crash in 80 years, has been an unrelenting economic (not to say moral) disaster. Central banks have had to very reluctantly respond by flooding the system with QE money and gutting interest rates, but because the coalition was intentionally shrinking economic growth, there were and still are no safe returns for the newly-created capital to be found. The money instead poured into inflating stock prices (not because of investment but buybacks and sleazy M&As), and real estate bubbles. There is now almost no capital city in the world not at war that isn't suffering from a real estate bubble.

Now, that's all fine and good for the get-rich-quick private school set that are the Tories and Lib Dems bread and butter, but for people who actually value markets, it is a catastrophe, because pension funds and other institutional investors, which want nothing more than stable, safe, modest long-term returns, are having to chase all the QE froth and private equity speculation (ie asset-stripping which is devastating to local high streets incidentally), which in an age of negative interest rates (!!!), are the only game in town. This is only compounding the market distortions, and it means that when it finally becomes apparent that the entire economy is WeWork, and the whole mess comes crashing down, the scale will be astronomical compared to 2008, and there will be nothing central banks can do this time because they've already been pulling on the emergency lever this entire time.

Thus, we now have the IMF (!!!) and even Larry Summers begging - literally begging - Eurozone governments to borrow money and invest, in order to save the financial system, and they still won't do it because their brains ceased all motor function in 1995 at the exact instant that they finished reading The Lexus and the Olive Tree.

Government borrowing is the life-blood!!! of finance. It is the beating heart of how capitalism and the financial sector works. It is the prime mover of everything else that follows (you should read Mariana Mazzucato, by the way: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mariana-mazzucato) The fact that liberals have managed to convince themselves otherwise will be one day be the epitaph of the entire species. When you attack that, you destroy everything. And that is exactly what has happened since 2008, when we doubled down on everything that created the crash in first place. And when the second, much-larger bill comes due, Brexit and Trump will seem like sunday league compared to the much-deserved but no doubt destructive popular backlash that will follow, which will probably destroy every last bit of the civic and political values that liberals (despite having delivered the death blow) think they hold dear.

Labour is, frankly, the only party in Britain that actually understands macroeconomics.

I can see many of you snorting on your cornflakes because it is the opposite of what you have been trained to believe by the corporate cheerleader press (The Times/Telegraph/Economist et al). But in more sensible publications like the FT there is an overwhelming consensus in support of Labour's broad policy direction (if not for Corbyn, granted, due mostly to matters of personal taste). No serious macroeconomist questions this.

Middle-class types who know nothing about finance but who bleat on about cutting spending because of 'fiscal responsibility' while patting themselves on the heads for being clever because of their Economist mugs really need to download the latest software and install the newest patch into their brains, because their talking points have been disconnected from reality and economic orthodox for going on three decades now, and the consequences will be unprecedented.

On the bloke in the tweet however, it just seems a morally slippery slope when some third party is deciding whether the way you earned your money is just or not. Very slippery.

Um....what? I mean, it is also the fundamental basis of the entire concept of human jurisprudence...
 
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