Current Affairs The General Election

[abelard]

If Labour want to restructure British society to a European social democracy, they have to be honest that it is a 20 year process requiring a new consensus across the political spectrum

This is true, but sadly, the public has become extremely cynical about politics, and not without reason. It takes something deliberately very bold to get most people to take notice. Wonkish tweaks around the margins do not persuade young people suffering from student debt and QE-driven rent inflation to turn out (as we learned in 2015). A provocative vision of what a better society might look like does (as we learned in 2017).

In fact, if Labour loses, it will probably be because they put too much effort into explaining specific policy details and how everything will be costed rather than just repeating a bus-sized slogan 9 million times per interview.

 

[bol-uk]

Part of my work is advising startups, and if one said they want to be worth £1bn next year and conquer multiple markets, I would gently advise them not to be silly sods.

And point them in the direction of their nearest food bank?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I'd rather take a chance on policy that stops food banks and child poverty than continue with what we have now. The amount of people that just seem ambivalent to the current plight of millions of genuinely hard up, struggling families is incredible. Burying your heads in the sand

Why would anyone be willing to carry on as we are?

Because the majority of people have no real idea (or don’t really care) how policies implemented by the conservative government have affected the most vulnerable people in our society.
Was working with a young single mother the other day who was in clear financial difficulty as a direct result of Tory policies. Offered her a food parcel and she broke down in tears.
Disgusting how people can still support this government

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

This is true, but sadly, the public has become extremely cynical about politics, and not without reason. It takes something deliberately very bold to get most people to take notice. Wonkish tweaks around the margins do not persuade young people suffering from student debt and QE-driven rent inflation to turn out (as we learned in 2015). A provocative vision of what a better society might look like does (as we learned in 2017).

In fact, if Labour loses, it will probably be because they put too much effort into explaining specific policy details and how everything will be costed rather than just repeating a bus-sized slogan 9 million times per interview.

Yes, politics seems to have become the X Factor for ugly people.

I really think if you could explain succintly to young people that they have been utterly shafted by the housing, industrial, education and pension strategies of previous governments (whilst being very clear you are talking about your own side too, because nobody is blameless here) you could unite them around a total shift in the direction of the country, but you have to be honest and tell them they own this project because it is going to take most of their lives.

 

[abelard]

The rhetoric would compare the UK to Syria, like we're a complete basket case. The NHS is a good example as it's hugely weaponised and the reality is nowhere near as dire as the myth.

I tend to trust the people who work there rather than the people whose job it is to sell it off bit by bit

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And point them in the direction of their nearest food bank?

Or teach people how to budget, cook for themselves and so on. Unfortunately labour's thing is simply to throw (the rich's) money at people and act all virtuous. [Poor language removed] off Jeremy you pious whopper.

 

[abelard]

Yes, politics seems to have become the X Factor for ugly people.

I really think if you could explain succintly to young people that they have been utterly shafted by the housing, industrial, education and pension strategies of previous governments (whilst being very clear you are talking about your own side too, because nobody is blameless here) you could unite them around a total shift in the direction of the country, but you have to be honest and tell them they own this project because it is going to take most of their lives.

Not that long... the New Deal is probably a reasonable model to aim for.

I mean... we have ten years and counting to do something about climate change.

In that light, moderation is the most radical and irresponsible approach of all.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I tend to trust the people who work there rather than the people whose job it is to sell it off bit by bit

Ah yes, because my wife would know the first thing about running the NHS. I note that Jeremy Stevens isn't one of those 'they work there so know stuff' gang as he's a horrid manager rather than a saintly nurse.

 

[tsubaki]

Sorry to jump in again here, but the UK is not set up to make this jump immediatley. Things work completely differently on the continent. I pay 50% on everything I earn over €36k and the personal allowance is 5k, there is no NHS we have a co-op that refunds most of the cost of your medical care and mandatory insurance for the big stuff, Unions play the role of providing out of work benefits. Beaurocracy is rampant in every area of life.

If Labour want to restructure British society to a European social democracy, they have to be honest that it is a 20 year process requiring a new consensus across the political spectrum and probably a new electorate. They also have to convince everybody to pay a lot more tax.

I don't say this isn't a worthy goal, but I don't believe that anybody at the top of the Labour Party currently has the charisma to carry the people with him to unertake such a shift in national outlook.

That is a valid point, but Corbyn knows that he has an awful lot of opposition and will not get twenty years to do it. I doubt he will even get five months, never mind five years, before the real opposition starts but if Warren or Sanders win in 2020 it will be easier.

He has to at least have a good go at it if he wins, and hope that people realise they aren’t being sent to the Tractor Factory after all, and that the previous regimes were taking considerable liberties. Then things should start to change for the better, even if it’s just one sector at a time.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

That is a valid point, but Corbyn knows that he has an awful lot of opposition and will not get twenty years to do it. I doubt he will even get five months, never mind five years, before the real opposition starts but if Warren or Sanders win in 2020 it will be easier.

He has to at least have a good go at it if he wins, and hope that people realise they aren’t being sent to the Tractor Factory after all, and that the previous regimes were taking considerable liberties. Then things should start to change for the better, even if it’s just one sector at a time.

The problem being is that you do it badly, it basically is people being sent to the tractor factory and then you end up with 14 years of Conservative government with a Labour party the centre of the country won't look at twice... again.

I really wish we could get to a situation where politicians are honest about their long term vision (assuming they have one, always dangerous) and not treat the electorate like idiots.

 

[tsubaki]

The problem being is that you do it badly, it basically is people being sent to the tractor factory and then you end up with 14 years of Conservative government with a Labour party the centre of the country won't look at twice... again.

I really wish we could get to a situation where politicians are honest about their long term vision (assuming they have one, always dangerous) and not treat the electorate like idiots.

TBF if the centre of the country doesn’t accept that (a) there are serious problems in the country and (b) serious solutions are required to fix them, then the UK really is screwed.

 

[bol-uk]

In Flanders last bastion of sanity, Ghent.

I can't blame you for optimism, we should all embrace the positives.

Surely no one moves to Belgium unless for love?

 

[bol-uk]

Or teach people how to budget, cook for themselves and so on. Unfortunately labour's thing is simply to throw (the rich's) money at people and act all virtuous. [Poor language removed] off Jeremy you pious whopper.

And there is the difference between us!

For the many not the few mate. I am a relatively high earner but am happy to pay much more income and corporation tax to help the less fortunate.

Sad times when people seem to think it OK for the rich to remain that way while others struggle. No wonder you hate JC.

And by the way, how do homeless people "learn to cook" Single mothers on £50PW "learn to budget"?

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Surely no one moves to Belgium unless for love?

Love of beer and cycling and a crappy job.

The love of a good woman came later.

 

[bol-uk]

Love of beer and cycling and a crappy job.

The love of a good woman came later.

Sounds like the perfect life