Current Affairs The General Election

[bol-uk]

Ok, I was being glib rather than accusing @bol-uk of silencing or persecuting me. It was bemoaning the death of nuance.

Mate, nuance doesn't come across well in type!

Sorry if I was on a rant, just cannot believe people will still harbour another Tory government.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'd rather take a chance on policy that stops food banks and child poverty than continue with what we have now. The amount of people that just seem ambivalent to the current plight of millions of genuinely hard up, struggling families is incredible. Burying your heads in the sand

Why would anyone be willing to carry on as we are?

That wants to do stuff. Wanting to do things doesn't mean you will, or I'd have married Natalie Portman rather than getting a restraining order from her.

 

[tsubaki]

That's kind of the point many have been making all along, as there are clearly many potential Labour voters who would happily give them their vote if only they weren't being so radical. Neither Labour or their ardent supporters seem to get that. You're instead just relying on Labour being the lesser of two evils, which is a bit crap tbh.

“Radical” is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in that sentence though, and the use of such words (and others like hard-left, and the whole panoply of religious terms) has been a deliberate policy in delegitimising what Labour wants to do.

The reality is that Labour want a more European, equal, social democracy style state but because we have been a mess these past forty years they are going to have to try and do all that quickly.

 

[bol-uk]

That wants to do stuff. Wanting to do things doesn't mean you will, or I'd have married Natalie Portman rather than getting a restraining order from her.

So, because it may be a challenge you will not bother? You will just stay with the current devastation?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Supporting one political party and not any of the others does not equate to a lack of nuance.

You're more likely to see Liverpool praised on here than the Tories.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

But that is hypothetical,meanwhile people are starving and homeless while our services are being run into the ground. Ask any teacher, nurse, copper or careworker and they will all tell you that we cannot carry on as is. However, you will ignore this and maintain the current, bent regime because labour MIGHT create an issue further down the line whilst they at least attempt to level the playing field.

Let's just hope none of us fall on hard times and need universal credit or long term health care in the near future.

I'm not ignoring anything, I genuinely have no idea who I would vote for in this election as I don't believe any of the options on offer are attractive or competent in running a country. I wouldn't vote for any conservative party led by Johnson, I struggle with the feasibility of Labour's economic plan (whilst I agree that the issues you highlight need to be addressed).

If somebody was actually honest about the major surgery the UK needs (including a total overhaul of the tax code) and acknowledge that there is no shortcut to solving a lot of the issues we have, then I'd happily throw my lot in with them. I would describe myself, politically, as an old school small-l liberal. My studies in economic led me to be extremely wary of the unintended consequences of the state controlling more than they are qualified to and men as wedded to centralized government as Corbyn and McDonnell make me fear that.

I could go on for days about my fears over housing, pensions and the changing role of work and the way our education system fails children, about creating an underclass through a combination of these and work not affording people a dignified life and how all of the above alienates people from society but this probably isn't the place. I do find as I get older (and live outside the UK) I get economically more left wing and I've always been socially liberal but I am still pretty much in the middle of the spectrum (political compass is a great site, by the way).

TLDR: I wouldn't know until I got to the booth. Thankfully this isn't my fight. We have our own issues in resisting the worst instincts of the NVA and Vlaams Belang.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So, because it may be a challenge you will not bother? You will just stay with the current devastation?

No, I try and be realistic rather than ridiculous.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So, because it may be a challenge you will not bother? You will just stay with the current devastation?

Part of my work is advising startups, and if one said they want to be worth £1bn next year and conquer multiple markets, I would gently advise them not to be silly sods.

 

[abelard]

You're more likely to see Liverpool praised on here than the Tories.

And for good reason, because they have done terrible things to the country, out of fanatical ideological myopia and mostly just plain spite.

Still, I have repeatedly expressed how exasperating Corbyn can be as a leader, and on several occasions praised Javid's budget for finally acknowledging how idiotic the previous Tory/Lib Dem obsession with shrinking the deficit in a recession has been (though there is little chance of much of it actually passing should they
win).

Labour is flawed, but they remain the only party that has any solutions appropriate to the scale of the challenges Britain faces thanks to the coalition, and the only party that understands basic macroeconomics. (Yes, obviously that it my opinion - sorry for 'oppressing' or 'silencing' anyone who sees things differently)

The notion that all parties are equally bad and the correct rational answer lies at their exact geometric centre is far more mindless and lacking in 'nuance' than identifying why one approach is better than the others.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

“Radical” is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting in that sentence though, and the use of such words (and others like hard-left, and the whole panoply of religious terms) has been a deliberate policy in delegitimising what Labour wants to do.

The reality is that Labour want a more European, equal, social democracy style state but because we have been a mess these past forty years they are going to have to try and do all that quickly.

Sorry to jump in again here, but the UK is not set up to make this jump immediatley. Things work completely differently on the continent. I pay 50% on everything I earn over €36k and the personal allowance is 5k, there is no NHS we have a co-op that refunds most of the cost of your medical care and mandatory insurance for the big stuff, Unions play the role of providing out of work benefits. Beaurocracy is rampant in every area of life.

If Labour want to restructure British society to a European social democracy, they have to be honest that it is a 20 year process requiring a new consensus across the political spectrum and probably a new electorate. They also have to convince everybody to pay a lot more tax.

I don't say this isn't a worthy goal, but I don't believe that anybody at the top of the Labour Party currently has the charisma to carry the people with him to unertake such a shift in national outlook.

 

[abelard]

Part of my work is advising startups, and if one said they want to be worth £1bn next year and conquer multiple markets, I would gently advise them not to be silly sods.

Ever heard of WeWork?

I'm not sure your advice really suits the tech bubble... ; )

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And for good reason, because they have done terrible things to the country, out of fanatical ideological myopia and mostly just plain spite.

Still, I have repeatedly expressed how exasperating Corbyn can be as a leader, and on several occasions praised Javid's budget for finally acknowledging how idiotic the previous Tory/Lib Dem obsession with shrinking the deficit in a recession has been (though there is little chance of much of it actually passing should they
win).

Labour is flawed, but they are the only party that has any solutions appropriate to the scale of the challenges Britain faces thanks to the coalition, and the only party that understands basic macroeconomics.

The notion that all parties are equally bad and the correct rational answer lies at their exact geometric centre is a far more mindless and lacking in 'nuance' than identifying why one approach is better than the others.

The rhetoric would compare the UK to Syria, like we're a complete basket case. The NHS is a good example as it's hugely weaponised and the reality is nowhere near as dire as the myth.

Ever heard of WeWork?

I'm not sure your advice really suits the tech bubble... ; )

We Work is perhaps illustrative of Labour as their hyperbole is hugely removed from reality.

 

[bol-uk]

I'm not ignoring anything, I genuinely have no idea who I would vote for in this election as I don't believe any of the options on offer are attractive or competent in running a country. I wouldn't vote for any conservative party led by Johnson, I struggle with the feasibility of Labour's economic plan (whilst I agree that the issues you highlight need to be addressed).

If somebody was actually honest about the major surgery the UK needs (including a total overhaul of the tax code) and acknowledge that there is no shortcut to solving a lot of the issues we have, then I'd happily throw my lot in with them. I would describe myself, politically, as an old school small-l liberal. My studies in economic led me to be extremely wary of the unintended consequences of the state controlling more than they are qualified to and men as wedded to centralized government as Corbyn and McDonnell make me fear that.

I could go on for days about my fears over housing, pensions and the changing role of work and the way our education system fails children, about creating an underclass through a combination of these and work not affording people a dignified life and how all of the above alienates people from society but this probably isn't the place. I do find as I get older (and live outside the UK) I get economically more left wing and I've always been socially liberal but I am still pretty much in the middle of the spectrum (political compass is a great site, by the way).

TLDR: I wouldn't know until I got to the booth. Thankfully this isn't my fight. We have our own issues in resisting the worst instincts of the NVA and Vlaams Belang.

I confess I do fear McDonell, he seems to be totally "pie in the sky" sometimes but, I would still take the opportunity for change over the option further devastation.

The political compass site is great, I did it a few years ago and was slightly left of centre, I imagine it would be a bit more drastic now! I seem to edge further left as I get older.

Out of interest, where do you live?

 

[bol-uk]

No, I try and be realistic rather than ridiculous.

Fair enough. I am an optimist I guess.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I confess I do fear McDonell, he seems to be totally "pie in the sky" sometimes but, I would still take the opportunity for change over the option further devastation.

The political compass site is great, I did it a few years ago and was slightly left of centre, I imagine it would be a bit more drastic now! I seem to edge further left as I get older.

Out of interest, where do you live?

In Flanders last bastion of sanity, Ghent.

I can't blame you for optimism, we should all embrace the positives.