Current Affairs The General Election

[gonetomorrow]

They scrapped the free movement pledge this weekend.

There will have to be some folk brought in to help the health service and economy.
If we can't get staff from our own employment pool we have to get them elsewhere.
The dental policy will probably save money in the long run I'd have thought. It's an excellent idea and the sort of thing government should be doing.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There will have to be some folk brought in to help the health service and economy.
If we can't get staff from our own employment pool we have to get them elsewhere.
The dental policy will probably save money in the long run I'd have thought. It's an excellent idea and the sort of thing government should be doing.

It needs people. I've had three appointments for my post 40 health check cancelled because of staff shortages, and the building industry have complained about skills shortages for years, so it seems quite sad that they've scrapped their commitment for the right of British citizens to live and work around the world while seemingly oblivious to the need to bring in people to build the new homes they want to build, provide the free health checks, install the wind turbines and fibre optic cable. We're not going to pluck Billy No Skills from the dole queue to fill these roles, so where will they come from now they've succumbed to dog whistle racism about immigration?

 

[tsubaki]

....removing Corbyn would’ve been a big positive, especially if he was replaced by a bright, we’ll-rounded, innovative leader with values and freshness. Corbyn decisively defeating Andy Burnham is a reflection of left wing control of the party that doesn’t appeal to the voters Labour need to attract. The fact the likes of Burnham and David Milliband have decided to get out of Westminster says lots about this Labour Party.

The media is what the media is, Labour don’t help themselves by being politically naive. It’s a game, they need to learn how to play it rather than pandering to themselves.

You have that entirely backwards, though. For a start - Burnham's defeat occurred before Momentum was even in existence, and David Miliband standing down as an MP happened in April 2013 (whilst his brother was leader) after some time on the backbenches, years before Momentum. To claim that "left wing control of the party" resulted in either of those things happening is not something that is born out at all; the right (or at least those who opposed Corbyn) held control of the NEC and most of the levers of power until the aftermath of the 2016 coup attempt, hence the purges, short notice rule-changes and so on that went on in that contest.

I liked Burnham as a candidate, and would have happily supported him as leader (especially as he wasn't one of those who went on strike after losing), but he made some bad errors in his campaign and it - combined with the refusal of Kendall and Cooper to stand aside once it became clear Corbyn was leading and could only be defeated by some form of unity candidate (which brings us back to "short-sighted and insular") - resulted in his defeat.

 

[tsubaki]

They scrapped the free movement pledge this weekend.

Have they? I could have sworn Corbyn just said on Marr that people should wait for the manifesto.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Have they? I could have sworn Corbyn just said on Marr that people should wait for the manifesto.

Very strong rumours to that effect this morning.

 

[Jebus_lives]

There will have to be some folk brought in to help the health service and economy.
If we can't get staff from our own employment pool we have to get them elsewhere.
The dental policy will probably save money in the long run I'd have thought. It's an excellent idea and the sort of thing government should be doing.

And retain them...

One of the big issues with the NHS is that doctors and dentists aren't retained. I know of 4 people trained as Doctors within the last 4 years and every one of them has gone to work in Australia.

If we are putting effort into training new NHS staff, then we should also be looking at ways to retain those staff.

Similarly, the staff we are attracting from overseas and we need to ensure we are retaining them, because currently it's like trying to fill a bath with the plug out.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Very strong rumours to that effect this morning.

I have seen that. Disappointing

 

[tsubaki]

Very strong rumours to that effect this morning.

For the EU it is going to be really hard to see how they will be able to do that, given the referendum position of a soft Brexit/CU option vs Remain (since freedom of movement in all but name would be part of any customs union deal). What Corbyn said a few days ago sounded very much like a return to the Treaty of Rome definition of freedom of movement even if we left.

If you mean the motion passed at conference, which covered non-EU nationals, then that is a bit more confusing as it appears they are talking about limiting it to family members of people already here and those legally entitled to come (though again, it was a conference motion and not a pledge).

 

[gonetomorrow]

It needs people. I've had three appointments for my post 40 health check cancelled because of staff shortages, and the building industry have complained about skills shortages for years, so it seems quite sad that they've scrapped their commitment for the right of British citizens to live and work around the world while seemingly oblivious to the need to bring in people to build the new homes they want to build, provide the free health checks, install the wind turbines and fibre optic cable. We're not going to pluck Billy No Skills from the dole queue to fill these roles, so where will they come from now they've succumbed to dog whistle racism about immigration?

Outwith the EU as in former times, I suppose.

"Free Movement" is quite an emotive term which we associate, or I do, with the EU and the Brexit debate of recent years. And it's seen as a binary thing - in or out. But running a country after Brexit is not going to be as simple as that.

Johnson talks of an Australian system and Corbyn openly acknowledges immigration will be required. In other words, they'll be coming in to fill the jobs we need filled because Billy No Skills - with his bad teeth - can't be ersed.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Outwith the EU as in former times, I suppose.

"Free Movement" is quite an emotive term which we associate, or I do, with the EU and the Brexit debate of recent years. And it's seen as a binary thing - in or out. But running a country after Brexit is not going to be as simple as that.

Johnson talks of an Australian system and Corbyn openly acknowledges immigration will be required. In other words, they'll be coming in to fill the jobs we need filled because Billy No Skills - with his bad teeth - can't be ersed.

I wish someone in the media would quiz all those advocates of the bloody Australian system why the migrants that the government can control at the moment are, on average, less skilled, less likely to be employed, and typically a greater burden on the state, than those that we have no say over. And from that, why on earth anyone would think that such a government could 'manage' migration and know better about the job prospects of an individual than them and the people employing them. What the [Poor language removed] makes them think that?

 

[peteblue]

The unemployed and students get free dentistry anyway don't they?

free dentistry for Billionaires and the rich, hurray.......

...or will it be means tested.....

 

[gonetomorrow]

And retain them...

One of the big issues with the NHS is that doctors and dentists aren't retained. I know of 4 people trained as Doctors within the last 4 years and every one of them has gone to work in Australia.

If we are putting effort into training new NHS staff, then we should also be looking at ways to retain those staff.

Similarly, the staff we are attracting from overseas and we need to ensure we are retaining them, because currently it's like trying to fill a bath with the plug out.

I think it's not unreasonable to demand that doctors and dentists who trained here should have to work in our health service for a period of time after graduating.

No doubt they'd find a loophole round that so they can go and earn big bucks abroad right away but there you go.

 

[tsubaki]

I wish someone in the media would quiz all those advocates of the bloody Australian system why the migrants that the government can control at the moment are, on average, less skilled, less likely to be employed, and typically a greater burden on the state, than those that we have no say over. And from that, why on earth anyone would think that such a government could 'manage' migration and no better about the job prospects of an individual than them and the people employing them. What the [Poor language removed] makes them think that?

Indeed. A few questions about why the government is selling British citizenship would not go amiss either.

 

[davek]

....it’s not in the least bit surprising given how short-sighted and insular Momentum Labour is. Hopefully the polls are wrong, but if this useless and dangerous Tory Party cannot be overturned then it’s difficult to see any future for Labour. Rather than blame the media, the voters and everybody else, they’ll need a root and branch change to their governance and strategy.

They appeal to the few and have to change so that they appeal to the many.

If the LP leadership had been left to honour the 2016 referendum Labour would be hime and dry in this election. Any LP defeat coming up will be down to the PLP and their insistence on pushing for another referendum.

 

[Eggs]

If the LP leadership had been left to honour the 2016 referendum Labour would be hime and dry in this election. Any LP defeat coming up will be down to the PLP and their insistence on pushing for another referendum.

....it’s certainly part of the problem, Corbyn was poor and far from convincing when pressed on Brexit by Andrew Maher this morning. I’m a remainder, but I agree the referendum should be honoured. Labour should’ve gone down the soft Brexit route (remaining in single market, customs union), but they are trying to please everybody by pushing a strategy they hoped would appeal to Labour leaving constituencies (like Lisa Nandy’s Wigan) and remainer MPs.

Saying that, I think it’s far more than Brexit that’s the problem and if Labour don’t realise it, then it’s going to be a long, long time before they become electable.

Conservative Party are currently 1-14 to win this election. Depressing.