Current Affairs The Far Right

[Pettifogger]

Nonsense.

Progressives understand the threat of Islam and the radicals. The difference is the left don't demonize all of Islam as the right does. As in not all Muslims are bad or radical.

As for the the christian types Bruce mentioned wasn't there quite a bit of information on the back end of last year stating according to stats that these guys caused more crime than Muslims but law enforcement refuse to call any of it terrorism. I'd have to go look for the articles again.

You have pretty much pulled the conservative card with the statement saying its deflection and demonizing gun owners.

When the guy is Muslim its terrorism. When its a religious nut white guy its mental health with conservatives even if he or she is associated with a group who spread hate and incite violence from time to time.

The right leaning folk in the US cannot see past Muslims when it comes to terrorism. Everything else has to be classified something else. Turn on fox news the day of an incident and immediately they look to Islam as the cause and terrorism before the facts come out. When it turns out to be a white guy its thoughts and prayers and protect our guns and lets move on. No in depth studies or discussions about why there is an increase in young white kids triggered with hate who look to attach themselves to some hate group.

Progressives endlessly attack Christians for bigotry but often won't utter a word to criticize LGBT rights in Muslim countries. Linda Sarsour is a hero of the fringe left, despite her relationships with terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. The media literally hid a photo of Obama and Farrakhan for the better part of a decade. Liberals know that radical Islam is a threat, of course. They're just so obsessed with avoiding any appearance of bigotry (except when it comes to Christians) that they'll contort themselves to avoid connecting terrorism done explicitly in the name of Islam with Islam.

Islamic terrorism represents the huge majority of terrorist incidents in the world. In the US, this is also true so long as you don't carve out 9/11 (which many reports inexplicably do). Terrorism and radical violence isn't limited to Islam, of course. Islamic terrorism also consumes far more of our intelligence, police and military resources than does any other form of ideological violence, and for good reason. That's equally true for the UK.

The world would be a much better place if we could dispense with the ignorant handwringing on these topics. I can "see past Muslims when it comes to terrorism," I just generally don't need to. Pretending there is any other form of radical violence on par with Islamic terrorism in 2018 is simply sticking one's head in the sand.

 

[SteveSC]

Progressives endlessly attack Christians for bigotry but often won't utter a word to criticize LGBT rights in Muslim countries. Linda Sarsour is a hero of the fringe left, despite her relationships with terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. The media literally hid a photo of Obama and Farrakhan for the better part of a decade. Liberals know that radical Islam is a threat, of course. They're just so obsessed with avoiding any appearance of bigotry (except when it comes to Christians) that they'll contort themselves to avoid connecting terrorism done explicitly in the name of Islam with Islam.

Islamic terrorism represents the huge majority of terrorist incidents in the world. In the US, this is also true so long as you don't carve out 9/11 (which many reports inexplicably do). Terrorism and radical violence isn't limited to Islam, of course. Islamic terrorism also consumes far more of our intelligence, police and military resources than does any other form of ideological violence, and for good reason. That's equally true for the UK.

The world would be a much better place if we could dispense with the ignorant handwringing on these topics. I can "see past Muslims when it comes to terrorism," I just generally don't need to. Pretending there is any other form of radical violence on par with Islamic terrorism in 2018 is simply sticking one's head in the sand.

Ah yes the same two references as always from a conservative to make the claim that all progressives are the same. You cite one lady who is a "hero" to the fringe haha!! and the fact the president who has met and shook hands with many leaders and people with dubious pasts as has bush (both of them, Clinton, Reagan and even Trump (who has gone as far to praise evil leaders)

Firstly many progressives have called out Muslim extremism. Many of us progressives don't agree with fanatics or the evil scum that call themselves Muslim. That's not to say we think all of them are.

Many progressives are bloody Christians. I am Catholic. I have as do other who are Christian the right to criticize other Christians for being extreme or being Hippocrates or sexual predators in the case of the clergy or whatever indiscretion they have made.

Just like many progressive own guns and are cops and military and are from rural areas. Have you ever thought that maybe they decided that there's more to life than pigeon holing ideas and ways of thinking and living?

That maybe just maybe the right has issues with the left because they are accepting and well progressive.

But even so you honestly think all lefties are atheists or something? Or is it just to tar all progressives as being the same?

Maybe the left are not blinded by staunch Christian views to form an opinion on bad behavior or some of the ridiculous stuff so of them have.

The rest of your point is taken straight from the conservative playbook of describing Muslims and Islam and pretty much confirms what i said in my point.

I didn't realise body count and destruction defined terrorism. Of course the Muslim extremists are the worst no one doubts that so you can stop with the attitude. You actually prove the very point i made. Trying to twist it calling me naive or any other disparaging name doesn't make you right.

I'm ignorant right oh. Calling someone ignorant because they disagree with you shows your character. It is in keeping with your MO i guess.

The very point is if your only willing to see Islam as a form of terror then you prove my point.

Dylan Roof was a domestic terrorist but the right wanted to ignore that and call him mental. I even believe they tried to tie him to Islam at one point.

The Vegas shooter white and not Muslim. I believe several conservative news sites tried to link him to Islam and when they couldn't it was straight back to isolated incident and mental health

White supremacist terror plots were stopped by the FBI

The guy in the car in charlottesville

These are incidents not mentioned by the right or dismissed as not being terrorism.

The fact is the gun control argument takes over generally when domestic terror happens as does mental health.

 

[Pettifogger]

I skimmed over that because it was mostly ranting without any real refutation or argument. Let me know if I miss anything you actually want feedback on.

Fact is, the left, particularly the far left, treats Islamic terrorism with "kid gloves." I don't know why, and perhaps you don't either. As for being progressive and Christian, certainly the Christian wing of the far left isn't exactly a powerful element, but it's not my job to judge their role. I have my beliefs about the relative compatibility of the two, but that's for another discussion and would be even more controversial.

I'm not sure what "if your only willing to see Islam as a form of terror then you prove my point" means. Islam is a faith, one that unfortunately is the driving force behind most of the world's ideological terrorism. Plenty of good things are done in the name of Islam, and most adherents are not supporters of terrorism. Islam as practiced in the world, however, is far less progressive than any other major faith, and yet, it gets very little of the political (I'm distinguishing this from terrorism) rebuke handed out to religion by American progressives.

Dylan Roof is a terrorist, and I don't know anyone who doesn't think that. I also never saw anyone tie him to Islam. The vegas shooter might not be a terrorist at all. I mean that purely in a non-ideological political science way. Can you be a terrorist if nobody knows what you're creating terror about? I think saying "conservative news sites tried to link him to Islam" is a little misleading when ISIS officially claimed responsibility.

The Charlottesville car attack was terrorism, and people like Ben Shapiro and other major conservative commentators immediately said so.

To be very clear, there are other sources of terrorism in the US, like the Charlottesville driver, Dylan Roof or the Dallas police shooter. But in the US, right/left wing terrorism represents about 6% of the terrorism deaths over the last 25 years. Most of that is right wing violence, and I think the large majority of the right wing number is specifically Oklahoma City. The left wing number is small, but I think about half of the killings have come in the last couple of years. Regardless, the remainder is almost entirely Islamic terrorism.

 

[Socrates]

When is a terrorist not a terrorist?

When he kills brown people.
Then he is a "moderate rebel."

It's only when he kills Western people he's "a terrorist"....and oh, yeah, he has to be brown too, for good measure.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I'm always minded that terrorism can have legitimate purpose, one only has to read up anti-apartheid or even our Suffragette movement. The latter perceived as peaceful protest, neither were nothing of the sort, both violent terrorist organisations who were happy to bomb. First UK terrorism bomb was planted and detonated by the Suffragette movement!

 

[Pettifogger]

I'm always minded that terrorism can have legitimate purpose, one only has to read up anti-apartheid or even our Suffragette movement. The latter perceived as peaceful protest, neither were nothing of the sort, both violent terrorist organisations who were happy to bomb. First UK terrorism bomb was planted and detonated by the Suffragette movement!

I buy into the concept that some terrorism has just cause underpinnings. But I think the question is whether the cost of the message is worthwhile to society. Even if that answer is "yes" to many, is it to those innocents caught in the crossfire?

 

[magicjuan]

I buy into the concept that some terrorism has just cause underpinnings. But I think the question is whether the cost of the message is worthwhile to society. Even if that answer is "yes" to many, is it to those innocents caught in the crossfire?

Most Israelis would say so.

 

[Pettifogger]

Most Israelis would say so.

And their adversary?

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

It's only when he kills Western people he's "a terrorist"....and oh, yeah, he has to be brown too, for good measure.

Martin McGuinness was always quite pale.

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

I'm always minded that terrorism can have legitimate purpose, one only has to read up anti-apartheid or even our Suffragette movement. The latter perceived as peaceful protest, neither were nothing of the sort, both violent terrorist organisations who were happy to bomb. First UK terrorism bomb was planted and detonated by the Suffragette movement!

The Suffragette bombers set the cause back years.

 

[SteveSC]

Martin McGuinness was always quite pale.

Wrong era my friend. Pettifogger is referred to modern day as in 2018 and so i believe Socrates response was also referring to the modern day.

Not sure either one of them would dispute the IRA being terrorists.

 

[Pettifogger]

Wrong era my friend. Pettifogger is referred to modern day as in 2018 and so i believe Socrates response was also referring to the modern day.

Not sure either one of them would dispute the IRA being terrorists.

Agreed, but it's not true in modern times either. I do think there is the image of "a terrorist" which is, in many minds, an Islamic terrorist.

But that's in part due to the fact, once again, that Islamic terrorism is by far the most common type in the modern era.*

*caveat here for when Magicjuan says the USA or Israel are the world's biggest terror orgs (it's a pretty well known playbook).

 

[SteveSC]

Agreed, but it's not true in modern times either. I do think there is the image of "a terrorist" which is, in many minds, an Islamic terrorist.

But that's in part due to the fact, once again, that Islamic terrorism is by far the most common type in the modern era.*

*caveat here for when Magicjuan says the USA or Israel are the world's biggest terror orgs (it's a pretty well known playbook).

To Americans in the modern day i would agree with that yes.

But you ask Europeans ( especially the irish and british) about terrorists in general they would still throw in the IRA and ETA

 

[Pettifogger]

To Americans in the modern day i would agree with that yes.

But you ask Europeans ( especially the irish and british) about terrorists in general they would still throw in the IRA and ETA

Sure, and for good reason. It's not entirely accurate, but it's understandable (same as Americans in the modern day).

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Progressives endlessly attack Christians for bigotry but often won't utter a word to criticize LGBT rights in Muslim countries. Linda Sarsour is a hero of the fringe left, despite her relationships with terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. The media literally hid a photo of Obama and Farrakhan for the better part of a decade. Liberals know that radical Islam is a threat, of course. They're just so obsessed with avoiding any appearance of bigotry (except when it comes to Christians) that they'll contort themselves to avoid connecting terrorism done explicitly in the name of Islam with Islam.

Islamic terrorism represents the huge majority of terrorist incidents in the world. In the US, this is also true so long as you don't carve out 9/11 (which many reports inexplicably do). Terrorism and radical violence isn't limited to Islam, of course. Islamic terrorism also consumes far more of our intelligence, police and military resources than does any other form of ideological violence, and for good reason. That's equally true for the UK.

The world would be a much better place if we could dispense with the ignorant handwringing on these topics. I can "see past Muslims when it comes to terrorism," I just generally don't need to. Pretending there is any other form of radical violence on par with Islamic terrorism in 2018 is simply sticking one's head in the sand.

Huh? How can you possibly make such a claim?