Current Affairs The Far Left

[abelard]

That’s incredibly tangential. There’s a difference between supporting ‘socialist’ common sense style policy and not being too keen on a nanny state style ‘expert’ coming in to tell people what they can and can’t eat and what they should be doing with their spare time.

Nonsense. Providing people with the awareness and above all the means to ensure their families have access to healthy food is exactly the type of "common sense style policy" that would win widespread support, if implemented thoughtfully. It doesn't entail legions of middle class Labour cadres turning up to smack the pretzels out of everybody's hands, or whatever else you've conjured up. I'm sure there'd be a wave of panicked gutter headlines about how "Venezuelan Bolsheviks are coming to FORCE you to eat your broccoli!", and people might glance at them on the way home from work and think, "hmm, that sounds bad", but as with so many other overwhelmingly popular Corbyn policies, when election time comes around and the media is compelled to actually explain them to people, or when presented to voters in the abstract, as above, they appear perfectly reasonable and are thus widely supported.

 

[zzr45]

Nonsense. Providing people with the awareness and above all the means to ensure their families have access to healthy food is exactly the type of "common sense style policy" that would win widespread support, if implemented thoughtfully. It doesn't entail legions of middle class Labour cadres turning up to smack the pretzels out of everybody's hands, or whatever else you've conjured up. I'm sure there'd be a wave of panicked gutter headlines about how "Venezuelan Bolsheviks are coming to FORCE you to eat your broccoli!", and people might glance at them on the way home from work and think, "hmm, that sounds bad", but as with so many other overwhelmingly popular Corbyn policies, when election time comes around and the media is compelled to actually explain them to people, or when presented to voters in the abstract, as above, they appear perfectly reasonable and are thus widely supported.

We have that already though, it’s taught in schools and there are more awareness campaigns than can be counted on two hands. So actually, on a low level it’s already happening and isn’t really successful. Why then spend money on public servants to seemingly flog a dead horse?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not looking down on them. And as I'm sure I've made pretty clear, I think people who are immaculately educated and who never miss the latest issue of the Economist are just as susceptible to this sort of conditioning, if in more subtle ways.

Oh I look down on people almost permanently

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We have that already though, it’s taught in schools and there are more awareness campaigns than can be counted on two hands. So actually, on a low level it’s already happening and isn’t really successful. Why then spend money on public servants to seemingly flog a dead horse?

It does make sense. Disease costs more money to treat (and is less successful) the further along it is. If it's cheaper and more effective to use lower skilled people in the community to help people live healthier lifestyles then it seems a rational thing to do.

 

[zzr45]

It does make sense. Disease costs more money to treat (and is less successful) the further along it is. If it's cheaper and more effective to use lower skilled people in the community to help people live healthier lifestyles then it seems a rational thing to do.

I understand the thinking behind it, but I think there’s an absolute disconnect between something being offered and it being taken up. How often are alcoholic units derided for example?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I understand the thinking behind it, but I think there’s an absolute disconnect between something being offered and it being taken up. How often are alcoholic units derided for example?

For sure. Changing behaviour has been stubbornly difficult, especially among those who need it most. There are examples of it working around the world though so it seems worth trying as the current approach is not sustainable.

 

[tsubaki]

Do you actually believe this. Honestly. Do you have any experience of seeing how nationalised Industries actually perform in the U.K. or is this just some form of utopian dream.......

Pete I remember going on BR, and I have just been on the nationalized SNCF between Marseilles and Paris. The old system was, and in the case of the French is, vastly superior to what we have now.

 

[Number_25]

It's quite interesting that a lot of people are commenting about the potentiality for the economy to tank if we nationalise one or two services.

It's not as if wealth inequality is higher now than it has been at any point in the last 200 years, or that kids are going to and coming home from school hungry.

It's not as if the levels of poverty we're experiencing are turning good honest working class people to the sort of vile far right extremist politics that are at fault for the deaths of ~80 million people.

Nope.

 

[abelard]

It's quite interesting that a lot of people are commenting about the potentiality for the economy to tank if we nationalise one or two services.

It's not as if wealth inequality is higher now than it has been at any point in the last 200 years, or that kids are going to and coming home from school hungry.

It's not as if the levels of poverty we're experiencing are turning good honest working class people to the sort of vile far right extremist politics that are at fault for the deaths of ~80 million people.

Nope.

Yep. Or the lowest growth rate in Europe, or the lowest home-ownership rate in thirty years, or household debt/gdp ratios approaching 90%, or the high street shops all collapsing because nobody has any disposible income to spend anymore...

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Do you actually believe this. Honestly. Do you have any experience of seeing how nationalised Industries actually perform in the U.K. or is this just some form of utopian dream.......

Pretty sure had we had Nationalised Industries just in straight swap from what we have now we would have the likes of Phillip Green running them. A whole sea change on how we think as country will be needed.

It’s not about individualism thats becoming quickly antiquated..

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's quite interesting that a lot of people are commenting about the potentiality for the economy to tank if we nationalise one or two services.

It's not as if wealth inequality is higher now than it has been at any point in the last 200 years, or that kids are going to and coming home from school hungry.

It's not as if the levels of poverty we're experiencing are turning good honest working class people to the sort of vile far right extremist politics that are at fault for the deaths of ~80 million people.

Nope.

How are any of those things going to be solved by having various industries nationalised?

 

[Number_25]

How are any of those things going to be solved by having various industries nationalised?

If people are spending less money on things, then they'll have more money, and with that - more control.

It's not exactly difficult.

 

[abelard]

How are any of those things going to be solved by having various industries nationalised?

That is clearly not the point of the original post.

You solve the problems it describes, however, by reforming and above all by properly funding the health and education services, by rebuilding local communities and their instutions, and by treating inequality as a problem rather than an objective.

Nationalising industries, on the other hand, is a response to this and this and this and this and above all this - in other words, to the fact that the status quo is corrupt, parasitic, inefficient, and often deadly, and minor tweaks to the formula are neither going to improve anything nor attract the political support that is required to do so.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If people are spending less money on things, then they'll have more money, and with that - more control.

It's not exactly difficult.

So you're assuming that a nationalised industry will automatically be cheaper for the consumer?

 

[Number_25]

So you're assuming that a nationalised industry will automatically be cheaper for the consumer?

One that's properly run, adequately funded, and accountable to the people - yes.