Current Affairs The Far Left

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I think it’s most commonly used now as a label of being in opposition to neoliberalism.

Yes. It's mostly only confusing to those who are disingenous about its commonly-understood meaning in the first place, because they so enjoy shrieking about how properly funding the NHS or investing in education will inevitably turn Britain into North Korea.
 
Yes. It's mostly only confusing to those who are disingenous about its commonly-understood meaning in the first place, because they so enjoy shrieking about how properly funding the NHS or investing in education will inevitably turn Britain into North Korea.

This is kind of the point though isn't it? There's a projection that the government are the best people to spend whatever money exists in society. I mean if you broadly ignore political doctrines, most would agree that Germany (or the Netherlands if you prefer) and France are decent countries to live in, yet government spending in the first two is roughly 41/42% of GDP, whereas in France it's 56%, which is quite a significant difference.

The question (for me at least) isn't between the state spending money on healthcare and education versus individuals spending it on boats and hoes, but whether the state does a better job of spending money on healthcare than anyone else would do. Is a government run train line going to be better than a privately owned one (even if that privately owned one is actually a state run company from Germany)?
 
The question (for me at least) isn't between the state spending money on healthcare and education versus individuals spending it on boats and hoes, but whether the state does a better job of spending money on healthcare than anyone else would do. Is a government run train line going to be better than a privately owned one (even if that privately owned one is actually a state run company from Germany)?

Yes, that's fair. And in Britain, the answer to both is probably yes.
 
Yes, that's fair. And in Britain, the answer to both is probably yes.

Which is I suppose the bone of contention. There seems a widespread presumption that Corbyn running the railway will see an improvement, but I'm not sure on what that's based. If you assume that the operational staff will largely remain the same regardless, and that as many of the operators are actually state run enterprises from France, Germany and the Netherlands (and are therefore presumably missing the evil gene that pure capitalists have), then it's hard to see upon what the assumption is based, especially as there's no track record of anyone in the shadow cabinet having run anything except the Labour party. There's no industrial expertise in it, and indeed precious little expertise of anything but politics.
 
Which is I suppose the bone of contention. There seems a widespread presumption that Corbyn running the railway will see an improvement, but I'm not sure on what that's based. If you assume that the operational staff will largely remain the same regardless, and that as many of the operators are actually state run enterprises from France, Germany and the Netherlands (and are therefore presumably missing the evil gene that pure capitalists have), then it's hard to see upon what the assumption is based, especially as there's no track record of anyone in the shadow cabinet having run anything except the Labour party. There's no industrial expertise in it, and indeed precious little expertise of anything but politics.

You can say that last point about any government of the past twenty years at least.

As for the railways, the way he apparently wants to do it is to roll the franchises back into public ownership as they expire, so the likes of Abellio, DB and the rest would slowly go away and they'd be left with only the ROSCOs to deal with (the firms that actually own the trains). This is the best and cheapest legal way of renationalizing it, and once you get to that point then the likelyhood is that it will be run competently goes up because there will be no more need to divert attention and money to the system of franchising, it can all be focused on the railway.
 
You can say that last point about any government of the past twenty years at least.

As for the railways, the way he apparently wants to do it is to roll the franchises back into public ownership as they expire, so the likes of Abellio, DB and the rest would slowly go away and they'd be left with only the ROSCOs to deal with (the firms that actually own the trains). This is the best and cheapest legal way of renationalizing it, and once you get to that point then the likelyhood is that it will be run competently goes up because there will be no more need to divert attention and money to the system of franchising, it can all be focused on the railway.

Who will run it though?
 
You can say that last point about any government of the past twenty years at least.

As for the railways, the way he apparently wants to do it is to roll the franchises back into public ownership as they expire, so the likes of Abellio, DB and the rest would slowly go away and they'd be left with only the ROSCOs to deal with (the firms that actually own the trains). This is the best and cheapest legal way of renationalizing it, and once you get to that point then the likelyhood is that it will be run competently goes up because there will be no more need to divert attention and money to the system of franchising, it can all be focused on the railway.

Black cat, white cat - so long as it catches mice, it's a good cat. You can have a more state-driven approach to rail like France, or more competition between private firms as in Germany or Switzerland. The UK monopoly franchise system, on the other hand, demonstrably does not catch mice, though it spends more money than anyone else in pursuit of them.

What the UK really lacks is investment. Northern Rail relies on trains which even Iran has discontinued as obsolete. Productivity outside London is lower than just about every other major European city, and that includes Southern and Eastern Europe. It is not a coincidence that that the UK is also, since Thatcher, the most centralised country in Europe, and the most committed to austerity. Inter- and especially intra-city transit is deplorable; Leeds, home to 700,000, literally does not have a mass transit system (the Tories scrapped the last plan in the 90s) - it is by far the biggest city in Europe without one.

Private enterprise in this country is totally disinterested in investment, even with the BoE all but on its knees begging them with the lowest interest rates in over 100 years. Private firms are not even bothered, never mind capable, of developing Britain's infrastructure. Instead, they settle for M&A, share-buybacks, and stripping each other for parts, a la GKN. Likewise, the Tory government, again completely disregarding monetary cues, is at this point little more than a suicide pact between a small cult of useful idiot Ayn Rand fanboys, and the most venal and self-absorbed class of rich people outside Russia. Both are delighted to bring the country to its knees in order to further pad offshore accounts already containing more than could be spent in generations. And neither has any interest in addressing the productivity/investment problem.

As was the case here after the war, in China and all the Asian tigers, and in every country - America, Germany, France, Japan - which has ever successfully industrialised, the state plays the leading role in planning and stimulating development, and Labour is the only party seriously proposing this.

Who will run it though?
The DfT already micromanages rail transit, down to details like the number of trains that can hold a catering trolley, or the number of legally permitted on-board washrooms. They just do so ineptly, for the most part, due to imposed ideological reasons designed to suit corporate franchisees. Nationalising rail would in practise represent much more a change in how the trains are run than who they are run by.

I'm actually agonstic about nationalisation, btw, but nothing could possibly be worse than the current system, which, as usual in Britain, somehow combines the worst of both the public and private sector.
 
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I'm actually agonstic about nationalisation, btw, but nothing could possibly be worse than the current system, which, as usual in Britain, somehow combines the worst of both the public and private sector.

Oh blimey, in spades do I agree with that.
 
Venezuela's government is pure power-hungry corruption that completely overtook any socialist ideals; it is a dictatorship that wasted their money. It has nothing to do with socialism.

I think we have many variants and definitions of socialism. I am for socialism. I believe in helping my fellow man and I’m willing to put what I have to the common good. But I am not a socialist in terms of keeping everyone in their place and not allowing the growth of wealth which pays for true socialism because of some political dogma. The UK’s socialists, neatly portrayed by Jeremy Corbyn, love Venezuela and it’s leaders and will say nothing against them. I agree with you, this is not socialism but it is socialist......
 
Who will run it though?

The ideal would be some not-for-profit body that is separate from the Department of Transport (who has abelard says are actively useless), perhaps one with a mixed ownership between employees, the state and the public owning a third each.
 
You can say that last point about any government of the past twenty years at least.

As for the railways, the way he apparently wants to do it is to roll the franchises back into public ownership as they expire, so the likes of Abellio, DB and the rest would slowly go away and they'd be left with only the ROSCOs to deal with (the firms that actually own the trains). This is the best and cheapest legal way of renationalizing it, and once you get to that point then the likelyhood is that it will be run competently goes up because there will be no more need to divert attention and money to the system of franchising, it can all be focused on the railway.

Do you actually believe this. Honestly. Do you have any experience of seeing how nationalised Industries actually perform in the U.K. or is this just some form of utopian dream.......
 
I think we have many variants and definitions of socialism. I am for socialism. I believe in helping my fellow man and I’m willing to put what I have to the common good. But I am not a socialist in terms of keeping everyone in their place and not allowing the growth of wealth which pays for true socialism because of some political dogma. The UK’s socialists, neatly portrayed by Jeremy Corbyn, love Venezuela and it’s leaders and will say nothing against them. I agree with you, this is not socialism but it is socialist......

I can't imagine any politician worth their salt praising Venezuela's government. It's been known for a long time, since mid-2000s, that Chavez was a corrupt authoritarian.
 
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