Current Affairs The Far Left

[peteblue]

Reinvest the profits. It isn't that big a stretch for you. It creates employment, serves commerce, relieves benefit burdens, would have thought a conservative would welcome that, no?

Indeed, but again what power to the common man ? Power is not, and never will be, in the hands of the common man. Power is always retained and held by politicians and those controlling business. The phrase ‘power to the common man’ is just a sound bite, no more........

 

[magicjuan]

Indeed, but again what power to the common man ? Power is not, and never will be, in the hands of the common man. Power is always retained and held by politicians and those controlling business. The phrase ‘power to the common man’ is just a sound bite, no more........

There's a liberation from the servitude of Mammon for the few, that's empowering as long as it is recognised and allowed to be self promoting, unfortunately conservatism serves capital which serves the system that wouldn't allow all an equality and equal opportunity. It is Darwinian and follows base primal fears, not intelligence.

 

[peteblue]

There's a liberation from the servitude of Mammon for the few, that's empowering as long as it is recognised and allowed to be self promoting, unfortunately conservatism serves capital which serves the system that wouldn't allow all an equality and equal opportunity. It is Darwinian and follows base primal fears, not intelligence.

That’s easy for you to say.....

 

[Number_25]

Exactly what does that mean......

In a world increasingly dependent on global trade, the average working man (and woman) has found themselves with little to leverage on. Having some publicly owned assets, especially in vital services such as electricity, water, rail and gas, would provide us some leverage.

It's not quite a "sound bite", nor is it biblical prophecy.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In a world increasingly dependent on global trade, the average working man (and woman) has found themselves with little to leverage on. Having some publicly owned assets, especially in vital services such as electricity, water, rail and gas, would provide us some leverage.

It's not quite a "sound bite", nor is it biblical prophecy.

All evidence to date suggests that nationalised industries are great if you're a trade unionist, but how do they provide any better means of redress to you as a customer? How has the NHS provided the consumer with any leverage?

 

[peteblue]

In a world increasingly dependent on global trade, the average working man (and woman) has found themselves with little to leverage on. Having some publicly owned assets, especially in vital services such as electricity, water, rail and gas, would provide us some leverage.

It's not quite a "sound bite", nor is it biblical prophecy.

Leverage to do what ?...

 

[Number_25]

All evidence to date suggests that nationalised industries are great if you're a trade unionist, but how do they provide any better means of redress to you as a customer? How has the NHS provided the consumer with any leverage?

Should we talk about service provision then?

• G4S complete failure to provide security to the Olympics, despite promises days before that everything was fine. The state had to step in and save us from international embarrassment.
• The collapse of Southern Cross, which led to 28,000 vulnerable (often sick or elderly) people not knowing if they'd have anywhere to live.
• Railtrack...
• PPP on the London Underground, eventually costing taxpayers millions to bring back into public hands.

I could list more examples of private sector incompetence, if you'd like...

We need to change our perception and understand that some things can't be run for profit without a reduction in services.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Should we talk about service provision then?

• G4S complete failure to provide security to the Olympics, despite promises days before that everything was fine. The state had to step in and save us from international embarrassment.
• The collapse of Southern Cross, which led to 28,000 vulnerable (often sick or elderly) people not knowing if they'd have anywhere to live.
• Railtrack...
• PPP on the London Underground, eventually costing taxpayers millions to bring back into public hands.

I could list more examples of private sector incompetence, if you'd like...

We need to change our perception and understand that some things can't be run for profit without a reduction in services.

With respect though, that wasn't what I asked. In a free market, the idea is that if a consumer is not happy with their service provider, they can take their custom elsewhere. That is their source of redress if they're unhappy. In a monopoly situation, that isn't available, so I'm curious how having a state run monopoly is better for consumers than either a privately run monopoly or a market with multiple suppliers. You mentioned that consumers have power in such a scenario, so I'm genuinely curious as to what that power is.

 

[Number_25]

With respect though, that wasn't what I asked. In a free market, the idea is that if a consumer is not happy with their service provider, they can take their custom elsewhere. That is their source of redress if they're unhappy. In a monopoly situation, that isn't available, so I'm curious how having a state run monopoly is better for consumers than either a privately run monopoly or a market with multiple suppliers. You mentioned that consumers have power in such a scenario, so I'm genuinely curious as to what that power is.

We control the state, ergo we control the services. If things aren't being run correctly, we can elect new politicians who will deal with it. If companies want to come here to business, then they need to understand a social contract in which we expect them to contribute beyond rudimentary taxation - failure to do so will mean that they are unable to use said services.

Given the current weakness of the state, we the people control very little outside our own labour. Think about how much "take back control" resonated with so many during the EU referendum.

 

[zzr45]

In a world increasingly dependent on global trade, the average working man (and woman) has found themselves with little to leverage on. Having some publicly owned assets, especially in vital services such as electricity, water, rail and gas, would provide us some leverage.

It's not quite a "sound bite", nor is it biblical prophecy.

Seriously, if the railway is nationalised how does that give me any leverage over my boss who also lives in the same country?

Daft ‘socialist’ nonsense with no logic behind it whatsoever.

 

[Number_25]

Seriously, if the railway is nationalised how does that give me any leverage over my boss who also lives in the same country?

Daft socialist nonsense with no logic behind it whatsoever.

We will have more leverage against global capital. You cannot deny that, if we were to be in control of vital services, we'd have a far bigger say in how things are done.

As for your boss, if you're having difficulties you should speak to your trade union representative.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We control the state, ergo we control the services. If things aren't being run correctly, we can elect new politicians who will deal with it. If companies want to come here to business, then they need to understand a social contract in which we expect them to contribute beyond rudimentary taxation - failure to do so will mean that they are unable to use said services.

Given the current weakness of the state, we the people control very little outside our own labour. Think about how much "take back control" resonated with so many during the EU referendum.

So if I'm not happy with my state run train service I've got to wait however long it is until there's another election, hope that my 1 vote in 30 million is enough to vote out the incumbent (despite many more issues than my train being at play), and then hope that the newcomer actually does something about my poor train service? You'll have to forgive me if I'm not particularly excited about that level of 'control'.

 

[Number_25]

So if I'm not happy with my state run train service I've got to wait however long it is until there's another election, hope that my 1 vote in 30 million is enough to vote out the incumbent (despite many more issues than my train being at play), and then hope that the newcomer actually does something about my poor train service? You'll have to forgive me if I'm not particularly excited about that level of 'control'.

I believe that there should be a lot more involvement in politics, beyond the four year election cycle. State owned organisations are required by law to be open to FoI requests, and so on...

Railways should be run by local communicates, and in doing so empower them to make decisions that are right for those within them.

I'm also having to write this on a mobile phone as my office computer is on the blink and I'm without internet at home, so I'm probably not able to give it the proper clarity it deserves.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Or perhaps a more pertinent example than us middle-class folk who use the railways. If someone gets messed about by the welfare people and their payments are late, reduced or scrapped altogether. Their source of redress is to go through the Kafka'esq appeal process or try and vote in a new government who 'might' change things in a few years time (when presumably your problems are rather more pressing). Ostensibly, the people are in control of how welfare is managed in the UK, yet many seem disgruntled about how the unified payment is being handled, and there comments have largely fallen on deaf ears. Meanwhile there has been no change in government for eight years, with the likelihood of there not being one in a decade.

 

[zzr45]

We will have more leverage against global capital. You cannot deny that, if we were to be in control of vital services, we'd have a far bigger say in how things are done.

As for your boss, if you're having difficulties you should speak to your trade union representative.

See Bruce’s reply - if anything we’d actually have less of a say as a user of a service. We wouldn’t ‘be in control’ whatsoever and we’d be more at the whim of the government of the day than ever.

And I’m having no trouble with my boss, I just don’t understand how I’d have more leverage when he’d effectively ‘control’ the same things I control.