The Fallout Thread

[LinekersLegs]

Saw the best and worst of John Stones tonight.

Impervious in the main, but then switches off for the second goal.

These lapses are why he will never be world class.

Lingard > Anonymous.
Sterling > Anonymous.
Ali > Anonymous.

Agree on Lingard and Ali and would also add Kane to that.

Know it isn’t the majority opinion but thought Sterling did well, at least in first half.

True he couldn’t finish his dinner but his pace and runs in behind stopped Croatia from pushing up much either in defense or midfield. I think it was him tiring and nobody else trying to relieve the pressure that was a key component of why Croatia started to dominate along with iirc they making some changes to their shape at half time.

 

[paultheblue]

Glad its all over and i can get back to just supporting Everton instead of trying my hardest to support a bunch of players that i spend the majority of the year not supporting as we are playing against them and often being beaten by them.

COYB's !!!

Is right mate it's only a pre season warm up that keeps the pimms drinking chinless wonders off the telly.

 

[Caolam]

England did not let themselves down in any way. They beat Panama and Tunisia and were beaten by Beglium in the group games. Belgium are a much better team so that was to be expected. They then got a draw against Colombia and beat Sweden. All in all they had three wins a draw and two defeats and played in the World Cup Semi Final. Not too bad.
The thing that would concern me about England's future performances, based on this World Cup, is their lack of goals from open play. Surely to win things you need to be a good football team and not just good from corners, free kicks and the penalty spot.
Most worryingly for England is that if Henderson is good enough to play midfield then they aren't good enough.

 

[DanEFC92]

Saw the best and worst of John Stones tonight.

Impervious in the main, but then switches off for the second goal.

These lapses are why he will never be world class.

Lingard > Anonymous.
Sterling > Anonymous.
Ali > Anonymous.

Kane > Anonymous
Henderson > Anonymous

 

[dholliday]

England didn't deserve to reach the final for two reasons:

1) they actively avoided the trickier draw by intentionally losing their final group game and finishing 2nd. Belgium can hold their heads up high as their B-team won that game and they have the epic memory of knocking out Brazil so masterfully in the Quarters. If you wanna avoid the best you don't deserve to be the best.

2) England really struggled to create good chances from open play: you can't win a tournament on setpiece-goals alone...it's a bit anti-football too. Croatia scored both their goals from determined fluid open play: they deserve their crack.


It's true England aren't the arrogant-yet-nervous arsewipes of the last 20 years, it's done them good and made them more sympathetic. Still a lot of football-related work to do, tho'.

 

[WA Toffee]

England did better than expected by reaching the semi, although all the stars aligned to give them the best opportunity in a generation to reach the final, so it can go down as an opportunity missed.

Ultimately, England came up against 3 good teams, and lost 2 of those games. Historically that is Englands level, able to beat the top teams, but more likely to lose, and flatter to deceive against the weaker teams. Unfortunately you have a media which goes way over the top and people fall for it (It’s coming home indeed), and end up with raised expectations and dare I say, delusional.
So, a good campaign by England, did well to reach the semi’s, not good enough against the top teams, but is a team which looks to be working hard for each other and will no doubt improve over the next couple of years. Could be a good bet for a semi final berth at the Euros

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Amazed England got so far with the midfield choices in the squad. The draw was kind. As many have said before, when up against teams with a bit of quality they've come undone. Incredibly reliant on set plays all tournament. Not a bad weapon to have in your arsenal, but you need more.

 

[davek]

Saw the best and worst of John Stones tonight.

Impervious in the main, but then switches off for the second goal.

These lapses are why he will never be world class.

Lingard > Anonymous.
Sterling > Anonymous.
Ali > Anonymous.

He's 'kin hopeless as a top class defender. All "the experts" can talk him up as much as they want, but he's got no danger antennae that all top defenders have.

 

[davek]

I had a score on Croatia tonight and have made a nice profit on the world cup but I banged it all on France at half time tonight.

Well done mate. You're cash is safe there.

 

[davek]

Saw the best and worst of John Stones tonight.

Impervious in the main, but then switches off for the second goal.

These lapses are why he will never be world class.

Lingard > Anonymous.
Sterling > Anonymous.
Ali > Anonymous.

A nothing player. Same as Henderson. Imagine thinking those two could help any team to a WC win?

Laughable.

 

[dholliday]

Agree on Lingard and Ali and would also add Kane to that.

Giroud is the template now for how a lone striker should work for his team if chances aren't being created. He's been an immense team-player the whole tournament, but zero goals.

Kane might have 6 goals but the Frenchman has had the better tournament.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Giroud is the template now for how a lone striker should work for his team if chances aren't being created. He's been an immense team-player the whole tournament, but zero goals.

Kane might have 6 goals but the Frenchman has had the better tournament.

I agree that some of Giroud’s defensive workrate etc have been underated but tbf I think Kane has been doing some Giroud like work as well as scoring goals including crucial penalties.

But his last two games he hasn’t, possibly due to injury, or tiredness or just not being quite good enough. But Giroud also has a far better midfield to create chances for him so really should be doing a better job of finishing them - I’d still say Kane has had the better tournament overall - especially if he goes home with the Golden Boot

 

[BlueToff]

A thread for hindsight and discussion about the England World Cup journey.

For me Southgates stubbornness in his team selection finally came back to bite us. Playing with a horrendously out of form Alli and Sterling was akin to playing with 9 men.

I feel we absolutely underestimated Croatia, the media expected us to stroll in and batter them and I feel
That could’ve rubbed off on the England camp too

Can't agree.

The system was the only real strength of the squad, in footballing terms.

Maybe we don't have the players to suit it, but, Sterling was excellent in the first half. Ran them ragged. Alli had his best game of the tournament by far, and i've been very critical of him throughout.

If you are going to go for something new, stand by it. I'm glad Southgate has. A few tweaks needed, but it's more down to the variety of the players available than the system itself.

England don't produce players like Eriksen or De Bruyne. The closest we have come in the last five years is a player that left us in January and is now likely to rot on Chelsea's bench.

A learning curve, but Croatia are an excellent side. England were riding the wave of spirit and togetherness and it's done the entire country a huge service. For that, everybody should be thankful.

I hope Croatia win it. Modric - my word, what a player. Ballon d'Or worthy.

 

[dholliday]

But his last two games he hasn’t, possibly due to injury, or tiredness or just not being quite good enough. But Giroud also has a far better midfield to create chances for him so really should be doing a better job of finishing them - I’d still say Kane has had the better tournament overall - especially if he goes home with the Golden Boot

If you look at the quality of opposition where Kane appeared to be more present in working opposition defences harder: it was Tunisia & Panama.

He's an expert goal-getter and needs to stay in the team, but I don't think he's good enough to do a Giroud-type job. And as Sterling doesn't do it either England will have to re-think here. I'd go for a proper 2nd-striker with busy-bee workrate, pressure can create chances and frees Kane to focus on being at the right place at the right time (Gerd Müller-style...or indeed Mandzukic-style).

Not sure who that 2nd-striker would be, tho'. Southgate has to focus on creating-chances from open-play if England want to challenge at the 2020 Euros.

 

[BlueToff]

The tournament's a positive.

Ultimately we've fallen short through a combination of inexperience and a lack of variation in the squad.

I'd have taken Wilshere, purely because he's a player who can get on the ball and pick an incisive pass or drive on a 15 yard run to draw some defenders and create space. But I don't know if he'd have changed much tonight.

We are good enough to blitz teams in the opening 30 minutes when the legs are fresh. Issue is, without Kane on form/in the area, we can't finish those chances. And then, when the game finds a rhythm, we don't have the skill in midfield to craft that opening.

But it's a huge step in the right direction.