The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[Neiler]

Yes.

And also, on the matter of debt: we've just pulled in £20M this last transfer window. Add that to the wages saved on those sold (all those sold last summer and last winter) and you must be near wiping out the club's own headline debt figure of £45M.

So, yes, £150M is a complete and utter joke. Even without the debt reduction I just outlined it's a joke given the state of the club they've left it in.

I make it 10 mill of the total debt mate, i know thats how much was being called in exclusive of interest liability, but i beleive the overdraft got a bit out of order as well. I dont believe its 150mill to be honest, as we arent talking about 100% of the shares.

The idea i believe in terms of whats exactly going on is bigger then just Everton to be honest and dependent on a number of varibles.

 

[Neiler]

Yes.

And also, on the matter of debt: we've just pulled in £20M this last transfer window. Add that to the wages saved on those sold (all those sold last summer and last winter) and you must be near wiping out the club's own headline debt figure of £45M.

So, yes, £150M is a complete and utter joke. Even without the debt reduction I just outlined it's a joke given the state of the club they've left it in.

Out of interest what formula would you use for valueing Everton and what value would you put on it.

 

[davek]

Out of interest what formula would you use for valueing Everton and what value would you put on it.

I dont monetise a football club. Not being evasive there, I just dont view them as commodities.

On the current owners - and in their own terms and using their own business logic that they preach to everyone - I'd evaluate what they should rightly get by way of compensation to be what they paid for their shares + or - what they've been able to add in terms of increasing the assets of the club (of which I'd leave out squad value because that's merely reflective of the current price in the market for players). You can take increase in revenue from tv money and ticket sales right out of the equation straight away...they've contributed nothing to that lot. So, overall, you're looking at how they've commercially performed offset against the fixed assets they've sold off.

Let's just say they owe Everton money and should not be looking for a large cheque to reward their efforts of placing a football club up to its ears in debt, plummeting down the table.

 

[Neiler]

I dont monetise a football club. Not being evasive there, I just dont view them as commodities.

On the current owners - and in their own terms and using their own business logic that they preach to everyone - I'd evaluate what they should rightly get by way of compensation to be what they paid for their shares + or - what they've been able to add in terms of increasing the assets of the club (of which I'd leave out squad value because that's merely reflective of the current price in the market for players). You can take increase in revenue from tv money and ticket sales right out of the equation straight away...they've contributed nothing to that lot. So, overall, you're looking at how they've commercially performed offset against the fixed assets they've sold off.

Let's just say they owe Everton money and should not be looking for a large cheque to reward their efforts of placing a football club up to its ears in debt, plummeting down the table.

You could have just said you were lost here. Thats the most out there post ive read in a while, you dont monetise a football club then go on to talk of assets, increase in revenue, fixed assets, TV sales, Ticket revenue. But we're not counting players lol. Meanwhile back on planet earth.

Your a legend though mate!

 

[Axlswhk]

Neiler, how I wish our club change hand now and you can spend more of your valuable time defending someone else instead. You seems to find ways to defend kenwrong just as much as davek criticise kenwright. I would like to borrow your term "black and White" to describe both of you.

what's your threshold for our new owner?

 

[Neiler]

Neiler, how I wish our club change hand now and you can spend more of your valuable time defending someone else instead. You seems to find ways to defend kenwrong just as much as davek criticise kenwright. I would like to borrow your term "black and White" to describe both of you.

what's your threshold for our new owner?

Defo not mate, i want change as much as anyone else, we're badly in need of a stimulas, i dont really care who is in control of the club or who does one to be honest as long as its good for Everton. If you read the thread even just a couple of pages back my posts arent complimentary over the handling of the financial affairs of the club. So its interesting you make a comment about being black and white. The devil as always, is in the detail of any potential deal for me.

In terms of the threshold, i would give anyone coming in a year untill a set of accounts were released, i would like to check wheather any take over was a matter of the debt being wiped out as part of the price of buying, only for a similar cycle of debt accumaltion to begin again and any new owner beginging to re-borrow. Ideally i would be more impressed if someone came in with ideas of how to do develop the stadium and infrastructure, thats really the next step for where the club is at and the areas it needs to grow, organic sustainable revenue streams, fiscaly the club is far to dependent on TV Money and David Moyes. To be honest if someone came in and said they wanted to drop 200mill on the team or even 50 mill, without looking to utilise the option on buying FF next year or looking at the feasability of redeveloping Goodison or relocating i would be concerned. If im being honest and maybe im a tad pessimistic, even with fresh investment i think its going to be challenge to compeate in footballing terms if City are the yard stick, being competitive for the Cups rather then lucky and qualifying for the CL would be inntial asspirations hopefully at the begining of a growth cycle.

But defo in favour of a stimulas.

 

[davek]

You could have just said you were lost here. Thats the most out there post ive read in a while, you dont monetise a football club then go on to talk of assets, increase in revenue, fixed assets, TV sales, Ticket revenue. But we're not counting players lol. Meanwhile back on planet earth.

Your a legend though mate!

Yes mate, that's why I placed this very handy explanation in my post: "in their own terms and using their own business logic" - just especially for the hard of learning.

Lol. Neiler get's things wrong...again.

 

[kenada_blue]

Surely the value of the club should reflect the market, the position that club is in that market, and what value its infrastructure/assets it has?

If Mike Ashley slapped a 200mill price tag on Newcastle United based on what he sunk into the club, and buyers bolted at that price even based on their brand/stadium etc....150million is very excessive for us.

But if someone wants to pay it, good luck. Just seems a big feature as to why its a hard sell

 

[Neiler]

Yes mate, that's why I placed this very handy explanation in my post: "in their own terms and using their own business logic" - just especially for the hard of learning.

Lol. Neiler get's things wrong...again.

Ha ha in their own terms they are excluding players as value or assets - good to know!

 

[davek]

Defo not mate, i want change as much as anyone else, we're badly in need of a stimulas, i dont really care who is in control of the club or who does one to be honest as long as its good for Everton. If you read the thread even just a couple of pages back my posts arent complimentary over the handling of the financial affairs of the club. So its interesting you make a comment about being black and white. The devil as always, is in the detail of any potential deal for me.

In terms of the threshold, i would give anyone coming in a year untill a set of accounts were released, i would like to check wheather any take over was a matter of the debt being wiped out as part of the price of buying, only for a similar cycle of debt accumaltion to begin again and any new owner beginging to re-borrow. Ideally i would be more impressed if someone came in with ideas of how to do develop the stadium and infrastructure, thats really the next step for where the club is at and the areas it needs to grow, organic sustainable revenue streams, fiscaly the club is far to dependent on TV Money and David Moyes. To be honest if someone came in and said they wanted to drop 200mill on the team or even 50 mill, without looking to utilise the option on buying FF next year or looking at the feasability of redeveloping Goodison or relocating i would be concerned. If im being honest and maybe im a tad pessimistic, even with fresh investment i think its going to be challenge to compeate in footballing terms if City are the yard stick, being competitive for the Cups rather then lucky and qualifying for the CL would be inntial asspirations hopefully at the begining of a growth cycle.

But defo in favour of a stimulas.

Good post that mate, I wouldn't disagree with an awful lot of that in bold.

Just to underline what you're saying there: you want new owners to come in and do exactly all those things that the current owners haven't got close to doing for the 12 years they've been in control of the club.

 

[Neiler]

Good post that mate, I wouldn't disagree with an awful lot of that in bold.

Just to underline what you're saying there: you want new owners to come in and do exactly all those things that the current owners haven't got close to doing for the 12 years they've been in control of the club.

Id be impressed, if they increased turnover by 400% and made up the same positional league placing as a football team as a starting point as this board did from there starting point, certainly.

 

[davek]

Ha ha in their own terms they are excluding players as value or assets - good to know!

Yep, I'm using their own business logic to suggest they've added zero value to the club by their own actions. If you want to argue the point about player valuations then I'd put that down to what Moyes has done on a poor budget - repacing rubbish players with better ones with a greater market value. Or maybe you'd take that achievement out of the manager's credit column and place it in the board of directors? That'd be a novel way of looking at it, I must say. But I suppose yu'll take any port in a storm?

Lolling...again.

 

[davek]

Id be impressed, if they increased turnover by 400% and made up the same positional league placing as a football team as a starting point as this board did from there starting point, certainly.

Take the tv revenue and ticket revenue out, come back and we'll talk about the board's economic miracle.

Good Lord.

 

[Neiler]

Yep, I'm using their own business logic to suggest they've added zero value to the club by their own actions. If you want to argue the point about player valuations then I'd put that down to what Moyes has done on a poor budget - repacing rubbish players with better ones with a greater market value. Or maybe you'd take that achievement out of the manager's credit column and place it in the board of directors? That'd be a novel way of looking at it, I must say. But I suppose yu'll take any port in a storm?

Lolling...again.

Take the tv revenue and ticket revenue out, come back and we'll talk about the board's economic miracle.

Good Lord.

Two points are linked to be honest, no doubt we have hit the glass ceiling to be honest and the majority of income is Tv - which is relative as every other team get approx the same, yet the star has risen significantly in comparrison to others and especially from last day of the season games against Coventry hoping to win to survive to maintain PL status, which was the same divying up of the pie back then under Johnson as it is now in comparitive competitive terms. Other revenues have increased but i take your point, nothing earth shattering.

Turnover is of course important - because it alows you to increase your cost base/liabilities, because turning no mark players/managers into great players/managers mean they have to be paid more. In basic terms the decisons on how to use your turnover are vital, hence the term you often hear of Everton punching above their weight.

For long periods as a board this was done successfully, from the summr of 2010 i think we lost the run of ourselves, but that was the having a go most people wanted. We failed to recognise the tipping balance, or misjudged the climate. I would be critical of that.

Certainly change is needed to follow on from this growth cycle.

 

[ricardobee]

I think Neiler and DaveK are GOT's odd couple, Davek is a grumbling Walter Mattheau and Neiler is a tenacious Jack Lemon.

Have you guys ever met?