Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[davek]

The British Afro-Caribbean population don't vote Tory. That's why those people were targeted.

 

[zzr45]

Supposed PM and person of detail a spurrious claim. May and her Government, has ended up where it is to changes in 2014 along with a series of speeches on anti immigration rhetoric (hostile), pandering to the false racist narrative that its immigrants that are, taking all jobs, houses, schools, hospital beds and weeks waiting to see a GP, putting untold pressure on the UK etc. Her action and words from her Government have created this alone, pandering to racsist narratives. Now Windrush, the nasty is well and truly back!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rotecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014

That’s completely ignoring the fact that immigration has been a concern for people years before this government came to power. There were grumblings from people when the EU expanded about Poles etc coming and taking jobs etc, it isn’t exactly new rhetoric. The link that @Bruce Wayne put up a few days ago demonstrated that perfectly. In some ways it’s very true - so many restaurants etc around here jumped on the EE bandwagon and took jobs away from younger kids round here (which is a trend that rapidly reversed) and landlords bought up property to convert into HMOs which saw property and rent prices soar. Not the fault of immigrants per say, but people taking advantage.

The problem is that it’s been policy that’s been pushed through for ‘quick wins’ rather than carefully considered. That combined with a wider
Issue of the civil service being hopeless has lead to this, rather than racist intent.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The British Afro-Caribbean population don't vote Tory. That's why those people were targeted.

It has wider implications, even the assurances May has made to EU nationals, I suspect EU are watching as much as the Brexit revered Common Wealth nations are. I suspect, Australia New Zealand and Canada won’t have to worry, well the non indigenous types! I also suspect those Russian oligarchs can come and go with impunity, they are numerous as their off shore shell accounts.

 

[tsubaki]

Told at least one fib at PMQs today (over Albert Thompson's medical expenses, which they hadn't told him about) and probably told another one (that it was a Labour decision to get rid of the landing cards, which contradicts what they put out last night and said after PMQs).

This clearly has them rattled, and by them I mean the person who bears the lions share of responsibility for this.

 

[zzr45]

Told at least one fib at PMQs today (over Albert Thompson's medical expenses, which they hadn't told him about) and probably told another one (that it was a Labour decision to get rid of the landing cards, which contradicts what they put out last night and said after PMQs).

This clearly has them rattled, and by them I mean the person who bears the lions share of responsibility for this.

Interesting in that May can obviously come out with complete guff and not be challenged on it. Yet another mark against the crocodile tear sound bite machine that is Corbyn. Rock and a hard place springs to mind.

 

[Jib in lad]

 

[Walken]

Interesting in that May can obviously come out with complete guff and not be challenged on it. Yet another mark against the crocodile tear sound bite machine that is Corbyn. Rock and a hard place springs to mind.

The right wingers literally find it impossible that someone could just be a decent human being, whether he is fit for office is another argument, but because what he argues for reflects common decency you have to assassinate the character instead, it's pathetic and speaks volumes about you

 

[zzr45]

The right wingers literally find it impossible that someone could just be a decent human being, whether he is fit for office is another argument, but because what he argues for reflects common decency you have to assassinate the character instead, it's pathetic and speaks volumes about you

Or the fact that as a senior politician you’d think, hope, that he’d be completely up to speed on the state of affairs. Like I say, the fact that May could weasel her way out by saying ‘No it was Labour’ and he’s left looking red faced as he doesn’t know if that’s the truth or not speaks volumes about the way he conducts his politics. This whole situation has been the result of hackneyed knee jerk responses in the first place - for the opposition leader to apparently have done a quick skim rather than fully understand what is a key issue is no better.

If you think it’s character assassination, wonderful. He jumps from topic to topic and fails to actually hold the government to account. He’s a politician for the Twitter Generation. Great.

 

[tsubaki]

Interesting in that May can obviously come out with complete guff and not be challenged on it. Yet another mark against the crocodile tear sound bite machine that is Corbyn. Rock and a hard place springs to mind.

Only the right wingers among us could react to evidence of the PM of this country openly telling whoppers in Parliament - one of which is in relation to a bloke with cancer that they are directly responsible for going untreated - by blaming the person who failed to respond straight away.

Even though he did respond straight away, and highlighted the issue nearly a month ago - and getting her to tell the fibs in the first place could wreck her premiership.

 

[tsubaki]

That debate should make very uncomfortable reading to the PM now:

Ms Abbott I accept the Home Secretary’s wish to clean up the system and discourage people from “playing” it—I deal with thousands of immigration cases every month—but has she given no thought to the effect that her measures that are designed to crack down on illegal immigrants could have on people who are British nationals, but appear as if they might be immigrants?

Mrs May: We have given a great deal of thought to the way in which our measures will operate.

Jeremy Corbyn: I will vote against the Bill on Third Reading for a large number of reasons. We have ordained that the Home Secretary will have executive power to take away citizenship in the future and to create a generation of stateless people. The handing over of that power is, I think, a very dangerous thing for any Parliament to do.We have a number of other serious concerns about the Bill, such as those covered in the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) about the forced removal of people; the death of Jimmy Mubenga, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather); the use of the detention system; the denial of health care access; the problems of forcing landlords to become agents of the Home Office; and the reality of life for those people who have legitimately sought asylum in Britain and are starving on the streets of our cities because we do not have a system in place to give them proper support. The Bill does not answer any of those problems. It is based on prejudice and headline chasing and has nothing to do with the real needs of people who are desperately seeking support, help and assistance rather than the cold behaviour shown by the Government today.

4.59 pm

Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): I pay tribute to the Home Secretary and my hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration for introducing the Bill and introducing important and positive measures to—

5 pm

Debate interrupted (Programme Order, 22 October).

The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), That the Bill be now read the Third time.

The House divided:

Ayes 295, Noes 16.

 

[zzr45]

Only the right wingers among us could react to evidence of the PM of this country openly telling whoppers in Parliament - one of which is in relation to a bloke with cancer that they are directly responsible for going untreated - by blaming the person who failed to respond straight away.

Even though he did respond straight away, and highlighted the issue nearly a month ago - and getting her to tell the fibs in the first place could wreck her premiership.

Again, I think you’re missing the actual point made, perhaps somewhat obstinately. The fact someone can actually tell bare face lies and not have them immediately exposed by the person opposite them isn’t a ‘win’ for anyone. Corbyn is an absolute sound bite machine straight from Twitter. There’s no depth of knowledge or thought evident in what he says. The fact the PM can sit and spout garbage is because he’s totally out of his depth but will say things to show people what a caring man he is with seemingly a lack of knowledge. That’s wonderful. I know plenty of caring people that I wouldn’t let run a bath, let alone a government.

Like I say, the electorate is between a rock and a hard place between one of the worst PMs in history and the living, breathing manifestation of an A Level Sociology Students Twitter feed.

 

[tsubaki]

Again, I think you’re missing the actual point made, perhaps somewhat obstinately. The fact someone can actually tell bare face lies and not have them immediately exposed by the person opposite them isn’t a ‘win’ for anyone. Corbyn is an absolute sound bite machine straight from Twitter. There’s no depth of knowledge or thought evident in what he says. The fact the PM can sit and spout garbage is because he’s totally out of his depth but will say things to show people what a caring man he is with seemingly a lack of knowledge. That’s wonderful. I know plenty of caring people that I wouldn’t let run a bath, let alone a government.

Like I say, the electorate is between a rock and a hard place between one of the worst PMs in history and the living, breathing manifestation of an A Level Sociology Students Twitter feed.

I have acknowledged your point; the problem is that its a daft one. If May stood up and told lies in the Commons then it will be something that she is likely to be crucified over; yes it would be ideal for Corbyn to have proved it at the time - though that would probably require a knowledge of the exact Home Office policy history that very few people possess (even if you believe May then that means the rest of the Home Office didnt know it either given what they have been putting out) - but the important thing is that May said it. Now people are looking into it, and if its proved she told whoppers then no-one (well, no-one except the shills) will try and make this about Corbyn, she will be finished.

As for your second point, I'd advise you to go and read the Hansard record of the Immigration Bill debates. Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott (and Lib Dems like Huppert and Teather) all correctly predicted the issues with this Bill. You can also read how May responded to them. If you still think that he has "no depth of knowledge or thought evident in what he says" when he was one of the 18 people who actually voted against this and explained why four years ago, then by all means.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

He’s a politician for the Twitter Generation. Great.

On contrary, he is nothing of the sort, however, its good you think he is, as its underestimation of his skills as parliamentarian.

Corbyn sets traps everywhere, sometimes they take years to manifest, just as tsbubaki is showing you with Hansard record of the Immigration Bill debates.

 

[roydo]

Corbyn sets traps everywhere,

his skills as parliamentarian.

That meant to be a ringing endorsement?

Sake, the current lot are a shambles, but lets face it, the bloke has done nada outside the chatter rooms of Westminster.

 

[tsubaki]

On contrary, he is nothing of the sort, however, its good you think he is, as its underestimation of his skills as parliamentarian.

Corbyn sets traps everywhere, sometimes they take years to manifest, just as tsbubaki is showing you with Hansard record of the Immigration Bill debates.

TBH I don't think this was any kind of trap, or long-term scheme to make May look stupid. In 2014 Corbyn was a backbencher and he tried to prevent people being targetted, theres no evidence he did it for personal gain or for political reasons. Even today he was probably taken aback by May coming out with two things that he couldn't believe were true; that seems to have been the reaction of the Westminster press corps as well.

That meant to be a ringing endorsement?

Sake, the current lot are a shambles, but lets face it, the bloke has done nada outside the chatter rooms of Westminster.

He is an MP though; his job is to represent his constituents and hold the Government to account. On this issue he (and other MPs like Lammy, Abbott, McDonnell, Elfyn Llwyd, Julian Huppert and Sarah Teather) correctly predicted what would happen four years before this scandal broke, so I'd say that as an MP he and they performed better in that role than those who were whipped into supporting it or - and especially - the people who were whipped into abstaining.