Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[evilwebby]

Frankly, I'm amazed the NHS hasn't already been sold off and doesn't have its own Nasdaq ticker symbol so we can all see how much richer the fat capitalist pigs have gotten today at the expense of the sick and elderly.

 

[Methuselah]

I'm not going to even attempt to defend Johnson who is somebody who has no control over what comes out of his mouth every time he opens it. I'll never forgive him for his anti Liverpool comments around Hillsborough and Kenneth Bigley. He's an embarrassment and I cringe when I think of him as British prime Minister. I wager he'll make many more gaffs before his tenure in office is up.

You may be right in that these Britain First people are attaching themselves to the Tories because they believe Johnson to be a far right extremist. I don't know. But I think they may be disappointed when they find out he's not as right as they believed. My view, and I may be wrong in this as it's just an opinion, is that the guy is much more a middle of the road traditionalist. I honestly believe he said those things to garnish a laugh, be one of the lads as it were. It's the sort of boorish tasteless things that cretins like him do. I've met dozens of people like him over the years and I have always had zero time for them.

As I said I'm not defending Johnson. If he had said those things in jest, as I believe, that's equally as bad as if he said them in menace. But I don't expect any extreme right wing policies from this Tory government during this term. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he played up to the Labour leave voters he has won over this election and we'll see them do good things for the north as regards investment in transport and infrastructure. If I'm wrong I'm there to be shot at, and would be the first to hold my hand up and say I called it wrong.

People with a political bent seem to be attracted to power. Britain First et al jumping on the Tory bandwagon is no different to the Marxists and Communists invading Labour when it looked as if Labour were favourites to win power.

 

[davek]

Frankly, I'm amazed the NHS hasn't already been sold off and doesn't have its own Nasdaq ticker symbol so we can all see how much richer the fat capitalist pigs have gotten today at the expense of the sick and elderly.

120,000 people's deaths linked to NHS cuts between 2010 and 2017.

Yeah, that's so funny isn't it?

 

[Barnfred 55]

People with a political bent seem to be attracted to power. Britain First et al jumping on the Tory bandwagon is no different to the Marxists and Communists invading Labour when it looked as if Labour were favourites to win power.

Let's hope that they get their membership vetting act together to stop these right wing nutters getting a foothold.

 

[tsubaki]

Have you read my posts. I acknowledged that the far right movements are attaching themselves to the Tories. That isn't in question. Why they are doing that is anybody's guess. Maybe they are trying to carry out a coup from within having seen the success that Momentum have had in taking control of the Labour party.

Momentum didn't "take control" of the Labour Party, though. It didn't exist before Corbyn's first victory, didn't have control of the NEC until after the second and doesn't really control the party anyway even now.

The simple fact though is that the Tory Party rules prevent people affiliated with far right wing groups becoming members. If they had made this affiliation known on application they would have been rejected. Any that they become aware of after the event will have their membership reviewed and cancelled. Even the Independent acknowledged that in their article.

That is a sadly typical example of what used to be a Blairism - deny something that isnt the issue in question in the hope that people think that it is.

As was said earlier, the Tories have a long history of attracting elements of the far right because of the policies espoused by prominent (at least MP level) Tories - from the pro-Hitler groups before the last war to the likes of the Monday Club, the Young Conservatives, the Traditional Britain Group and now Turning Point UK. They've also got links with some parties abroad that are fairly openly racist, and carried out a lot of things that are fairly clearly racist themselves.

As I said originally, your comments that accompanied the link from the Independent stated the Tories are welcoming these right wing extremists with open arms. Which is a view rather than a fact, which is why I pulled you up.

Again, it is kind of hard to make this argument that its a view rather than a fact when a load of (for example) Islamophobic people are joining a party because the party has demonstrated to them how Islamophobic it is.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

120,000 people's deaths linked to NHS cuts between 2010 and 2017.

Yeah, that's so funny isn't it?

Source?

 

[davek]

Source?

British Medical Journal

Health and social care spending cuts linked to 120,000 excess deaths in England - BMJ Open

Over 60s and care home residents most at risk; changes in nurse numbers may be key The squeeze on public finances since 2010 is linked to nearly 120,000 excess deaths in England, with the over 60s and care home residents bearing the brunt, reveals the first study of its kind, published in the...

blogs.bmj.com

 

[Walken]

No matter how many excuses people on here want to make, the far right have linked themselves to both brexit and the tories, and given the campaigns they both ran the door swings both ways

 

[edge]

No matter how many excuses people on here want to make, the far right have linked themselves to both brexit and the tories, and given the campaigns they both ran the door swings both ways

midland fans again after leicester here the other week, bells

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

British Medical Journal

Health and social care spending cuts linked to 120,000 excess deaths in England - BMJ Open

Over 60s and care home residents most at risk; changes in nurse numbers may be key The squeeze on public finances since 2010 is linked to nearly 120,000 excess deaths in England, with the over 60s and care home residents bearing the brunt, reveals the first study of its kind, published in the...

blogs.bmj.com

Very cost effective the free market would say, people are commodities after all.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

British Medical Journal

Health and social care spending cuts linked to 120,000 excess deaths in England - BMJ Open

Over 60s and care home residents most at risk; changes in nurse numbers may be key The squeeze on public finances since 2010 is linked to nearly 120,000 excess deaths in England, with the over 60s and care home residents bearing the brunt, reveals the first study of its kind, published in the...

blogs.bmj.com

Thanks. I note from reading the paper that mortality rates in the NHS actually rose over that timescale, but that mortality rates in social care (especially elderly care) fell. So technically it wasn't NHS cuts at all as elderly care isn't covered by the NHS, but it is an example of the politicisation of things, as there are certain departments that are so politically dangerous that they get protected come what may. The NHS is one of those, which resulted in cuts to less politically valuable departments being far heavier, not because they were necessary, but because they wouldn't cost votes.

 

[peteblue]

Thanks. I note from reading the paper that mortality rates in the NHS actually rose over that timescale, but that mortality rates in social care (especially elderly care) fell. So technically it wasn't NHS cuts at all as elderly care isn't covered by the NHS, but it is an example of the politicisation of things, as there are certain departments that are so politically dangerous that they get protected come what may. The NHS is one of those, which resulted in cuts to less politically valuable departments being far heavier, not because they were necessary, but because they wouldn't cost votes.

It also ignores the fact that the death rate from 2010-2018 is less than it was from 2000-2008.....numbers and stats eh.......

 

[Barnfred 55]

No matter how many excuses people on here want to make, the far right have linked themselves to both brexit and the tories, and given the campaigns they both ran the door swings both ways

I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't believe I have been making any excuses. That the far right are linking themselves to the Tories and also to Brexit is not in question. My argument is that those links are not necessarily welcomed by either movement, which is what people are suggesting. You may believe they are, which is fine. You are entitled to an opinion. But it is just an opinion and there are no facts to back this up. Any facts out there would point to the opposite.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It also ignores the fact that the death rate from 2010-2018 is less than it was from 2000-2008.....numbers and stats eh.......

Was that in the same report? Just making sure we're comparing apples with apples.

 

[Walken]

I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't believe I have been making any excuses. That the far right are linking themselves to the Tories and also to Brexit is not in question. My argument is that those links are not necessarily welcomed by either movement, which is what people are suggesting. You may believe they are, which is fine. You are entitled to an opinion. But it is just an opinion and there are no facts to back this up. Any facts out there would point to the opposite.

They were directly campiagned for by the brexit campaign, you might not have voted based on immigration and racial tension but to suggest the brexit campaign didnt stoke those flames would as daft as suggesting johnson will become a honest man after 50 odd years of lazily lying to whowever he needed to for his own undeserved progress, both the tories and the brexit willingly opened these doors, its the steve bannon way