Current Affairs The Conservative Party

Status
Not open for further replies.
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
The civil service expanded hugely to deal with the disaster known as Brexit, so self inflicted government idiocy. Hs2 again, Tory waste. Test and trace, again Tory waste/corruption. Furlough fraud etc.

This is despite Austerity in the public sector.

And apparently Labour were wasteful?

C'est incroyable!
Click to expand...

No mate, that’s not how it works. Initially yes, you bring people in to deal with Covid etc, but Brexit is done, Covid is done, HS2 is cancelled, so why do we still have 522,000 civil servants. In two or three years time I’ll ask the same question again after Labour are in government and I’ll put money on the fact that it’s grown again. The civil service is brilliant at recruiting and abysmal at reducing costs or improving services. I don’t blame the individuals doing the actual work, I blame the seniors who measure success by the size of their departments……
 
peteblue said:
No mate, that’s not how it works. Initially yes, you bring people in to deal with Covid etc, but Brexit is done, Covid is done, HS2 is cancelled, so why do we still have 522,000 civil servants. In two or three years time I’ll ask the same question again after Labour are in government and I’ll put money on the fact that it’s grown again. The civil service is brilliant at recruiting and abysmal at reducing costs or improving services. I don’t blame the individuals doing the actual work, I blame the seniors who measure success by the size of their departments……
Click to expand...
Because we need them you dimwit. We'd slashed civil service numbers pre-Brexit, and stuff wasn't working, then recruited to cope with Brexit. Now el ballbag Rees-Mogg and his ilk have decided to do his usual political capital shenanigans of starting a fight with the civil service.

Peye, you've never worked in the civil service and just trot out any old crap. Keep believing it. You're just desperately clinging to the sane tired points despite every bit of idiocy YOUR government has churned out proving what 90% of this forum has been saying.

Of course you'll keep asking it when labour are in power. Because its a Tory bugbear.

Edit: good analysis on Civil service staffing numbers. https://www.civilservant.org.uk/inf...d 1.6% (522 thousand,most recent peak in 2005. Even under New Labour numbers rose and fell. Note the final point - post Brexit we have more regulation to manage, previously handled by Brussels. So Rees-Mogg is talking out of his hat as someone has to do the work.
 
Last edited:
peteblue said:
No mate, that’s not how it works. Initially yes, you bring people in to deal with Covid etc, but Brexit is done, Covid is done, HS2 is cancelled, so why do we still have 522,000 civil servants. In two or three years time I’ll ask the same question again after Labour are in government and I’ll put money on the fact that it’s grown again. The civil service is brilliant at recruiting and abysmal at reducing costs or improving services. I don’t blame the individuals doing the actual work, I blame the seniors who measure success by the size of their departments……
Click to expand...
When Labour get into power, Tufton St will be no more?
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
Because we need them you dimwit. We'd slashed civil service numbers pre-Brexit, and stuff wasn't working, then recruited to cope with Brexit. Now el ballbag Rees-Mogg and his ilk have decided to do his usual political capital shenanigans of starting a fight with the civil service.

Peye, you've never worked in the civil service and just trot out any old crap. Keep believing it. You're just desperately clinging to the sane tired points despite every bit of idiocy YOUR government has churned out proving what 90% of this forum has been saying.

Of course you'll keep asking it when labour are in power. Because its a Tory bugbear.
Click to expand...

‘Dimwit’, that’s not like you, but putting it aside you are right I’ve never worked for the CS. However I’ve worked closely with the Cabinet Office, the National Audit Office and the Ministry of Defence. Now obviously I can only comment on what I have seen and what the current and previous numbers of civil servants are, and to me and that’s someone who oversaw the reduction in numbers, measured in tens of thousands, in a few industries it’s a shambles. As I said, I’m not having a go at the individuals but some of the Seniors are atrocious. You and others blame the government, but in reality the government only ever numbers a few hundred MP’s or Ministers, most of whom have never had a proper job and rely upon their Civil Servants (522,000 of them) to get a job done. Ministers set policy, the CS are supposed to carry it out but rarely do unless the agree with it. I am many things to different people, but I have some experience of how it works at the top of certain areas of government…..
 
peteblue said:
‘Dimwit’, that’s not like you, but putting it aside you are right I’ve never worked for the CS. However I’ve worked closely with the Cabinet Office, the National Audit Office and the Ministry of Defence. Now obviously I can only comment on what I have seen and what the current and previous numbers of civil servants are, and to me and that’s someone who oversaw the reduction in numbers, measured in tens of thousands, in a few industries it’s a shambles. As I said, I’m not having a go at the individuals but some of the Seniors are atrocious. You and others blame the government, but in reality the government only ever numbers a few hundred MP’s or Ministers, most of whom have never had a proper job and rely upon their Civil Servants (522,000 of them) to get a job done. Ministers set policy, the CS are supposed to carry it out but rarely do unless the agree with it. I am many things to different people, but I have some experience of how it works at the top of certain areas of government…..
Click to expand...
Mate, I've seen the shitshow policies and what GOVERNMENT MINISTERS task the civil service with doing. Which is where the waste and so called obstruction comes from - doing pointless or completely unfeasible things if the long winded process of persuading the idiots doesn't work.

So yes, the reason the don't agree with stuff is because they know it is a bad and often unworkable idea. You are coming around to our way of thinking.

You and I must have VERY different experience of how it works at the top end of Govt.
 
peteblue said:
‘Dimwit’, that’s not like you, but putting it aside you are right I’ve never worked for the CS. However I’ve worked closely with the Cabinet Office, the National Audit Office and the Ministry of Defence. Now obviously I can only comment on what I have seen and what the current and previous numbers of civil servants are, and to me and that’s someone who oversaw the reduction in numbers, measured in tens of thousands, in a few industries it’s a shambles. As I said, I’m not having a go at the individuals but some of the Seniors are atrocious. You and others blame the government, but in reality the government only ever numbers a few hundred MP’s or Ministers, most of whom have never had a proper job and rely upon their Civil Servants (522,000 of them) to get a job done. Ministers set policy, the CS are supposed to carry it out but rarely do unless the agree with it. I am many things to different people, but I have some experience of how it works at the top of certain areas of government…..
Click to expand...
Finally, some accountability.... You're gonna need a rosary the size of the milky way....
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
Mate, I've seen the shitshow policies and what GOVERNMENT MINISTERS task the civil service with doing. Which is where the waste and so called obstruction comes from - doing pointless or completely unfeasible things if the long winded process of persuading the idiots doesn't work.

So yes, the reason the don't agree with stuff is because they know it is a bad and often unworkable idea. You are coming around to our way of thinking.

You and I must have VERY different experience of how it works at the top end of Govt.
Click to expand...

It always depends on how you view it, from inside or outside, skin in the game or dispassionate, I can only state what I experienced….
 
peteblue said:
No mate, that’s not how it works. Initially yes, you bring people in to deal with Covid etc, but Brexit is done, Covid is done, HS2 is cancelled, so why do we still have 522,000 civil servants. In two or three years time I’ll ask the same question again after Labour are in government and I’ll put money on the fact that it’s grown again. The civil service is brilliant at recruiting and abysmal at reducing costs or improving services. I don’t blame the individuals doing the actual work, I blame the seniors who measure success by the size of their departments……
Click to expand...
If Brexit was all about us being free to govern ourselves and make our own rules then we’re going to be needing extra people to be doing this governing and rule making right?
Bit of a mad take.
 
JimmyJeffers said:
If Brexit was all about us being free to govern ourselves and make our own rules then we’re going to be needing extra people to be doing this governing and rule making right?
Bit of a mad take.
Click to expand...

The Eu employs 32,000 civil servants, we’ve added 100,000. Christ, we could run the EU on our own…..
 
4th best civil service in the world in 2017.

www.bsg.ox.ac.uk

New index ranks best performing civil services in the world

The International Civil Service Effectiveness Index assesses how a country’s central government civil service is performing
www.bsg.ox.ac.uk www.bsg.ox.ac.uk

And 1st in 2019 https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/about/partnerships/international-civil-service-effectiveness-index-2019

Do note that the Blavatnik school of Government should be listened to on grounds of one of their Profs. calling out Johnson's government for not being serious on C4 news.

We also have a reasonable sized, but not particularly costly (by European standards) civil service to boot: https://www.europeandatajournalism....ons-between-european-countries-are-deceptive/

Hmmm. Maybe our Government just like blaming others for their own idiocy. A bit like a stupid child "I punched the wall and it won't fall down and my knuckles are bleeding. Waaaah"

 
peteblue said:
No mate, that’s not how it works. Initially yes, you bring people in to deal with Covid etc, but Brexit is done, Covid is done, HS2 is cancelled, so why do we still have 522,000 civil servants. In two or three years time I’ll ask the same question again after Labour are in government and I’ll put money on the fact that it’s grown again. The civil service is brilliant at recruiting and abysmal at reducing costs or improving services. I don’t blame the individuals doing the actual work, I blame the seniors who measure success by the size of their departments……
Click to expand...

I'm currently working on a project within the Civil Service and they have had a recruitment freeze on since July, which has been extended to Apr. I think they have recognised that they don't need quite as many as they thought and are looking to lower the numbers with the loss of "natural wastage" and people leaving.
 
peteblue said:
No mate, that’s not how it works. Initially yes, you bring people in to deal with Covid etc, but Brexit is done, Covid is done, HS2 is cancelled, so why do we still have 522,000 civil servants. In two or three years time I’ll ask the same question again after Labour are in government and I’ll put money on the fact that it’s grown again. The civil service is brilliant at recruiting and abysmal at reducing costs or improving services. I don’t blame the individuals doing the actual work, I blame the seniors who measure success by the size of their departments……
Click to expand...

C'mon Pete you blamed Civil Servants for every single cock up the Johnson government ever made ! That's why they had to triple the staff, there were that many balls ups, you finished up blaming each Civil Servant individually. lol lol
 
JimmyJeffers said:
If Brexit was all about us being free to govern ourselves and make our own rules then we’re going to be needing extra people to be doing this governing and rule making right?
Bit of a mad take.
Click to expand...
Many Tories have never have been very good at taking responsibility, pretty hard when honesty is a key principle.

www.bbc.co.uk

Chris Mason: Brexit means buck now stops with government on immigration

After leaving the EU, the UK can't blame the bloc for rising migration figures, Chris Mason writes.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

→ Log in 🔑 Register
🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top