Current Affairs The Conservative Party

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NorthernBlue said:
Don’t care mate. Working class people who vote Tory and have some weird sympathy for Hancock are morons.
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I don't deny your right to a view, pal, and having had a council house, working class start in life, I'm more left than right in my political stance. I just think that the current trend for dismissing and utterly despising anyone who so much as puts a big toe over a line, whether it be someone like yourself's definition of racist, or Tory, or whatever, is profoundly misguided. These people all love their mums, have kids that they love and love them back, and are kind to animals. Far better to think about why they have the views that they do, and try to educate and explain to them why they're wrong.

If all of the 'morons' who voted Tory last time are left to do the same again, then we're gonna wind up with a similar government. Maybe try to suppress the rage, whether justified or not, and just engage with opponents to bring some of them onto your/our side?
 
Glasshalffull said:
I don't deny your right to a view, pal, and having had a council house, working class start in life, I'm more left than right in my political stance. I just think that the current trend for dismissing and utterly despising anyone who so much as puts a big toe over a line, whether it be someone like yourself's definition of racist, or Tory, or whatever, is profoundly misguided. These people all love their mums, have kids that they love and love them back, and are kind to animals. Far better to think about why they have the views that they do, and try to educate and explain to them why they're wrong.

If all of the 'morons' who voted Tory last time are left to do the same again, then we're gonna wind up with a similar government. Maybe try to suppress the rage, whether justified or not, and just engage with opponents to bring some of them onto your/our side?
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I envy your belief in engagement and reasoning but it’s futile.
 
ChesterBlue said:
I swear this 13 years of them in power has literally radicalised me from just being a socialist to being an anarchist. Tear it all down honestly, you can’t have “democracy” when you have every piece of news the population consumes coming from media which is mostly directly linked to the Tory party and corporate lobby groups.

They spoon feed people basically from birth that “Marxism is evil” without ever actually teaching people anything about it, because god forbid the working class may realise “that actually sounds better than slaving away in a dead-end job I hate for 40-50 years for a few crumbs of happiness”

Meanwhile we now have greater wealth disparity than probably ever between the rich and the poor, and have 2.5+ million people using food banks, when before the tories took over we had about 20,000 people using them. We are also ruled by people who actively think we are uneducated serfs, who are barely above cattle that they milk for their own good.

When Crassus, perhaps the richest private citizen of all time, was captured by the Parthians, legend has it they killed him by pouring molten gold down his throat. The Romans and most writers throughout history have pitched this as “sure he was rich, but look how much worse the barbarians are”. But now I’m like…
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Probably the best post I've ever read on here.
 
Glasshalffull said:
I don't deny your right to a view, pal, and having had a council house, working class start in life, I'm more left than right in my political stance. I just think that the current trend for dismissing and utterly despising anyone who so much as puts a big toe over a line, whether it be someone like yourself's definition of racist, or Tory, or whatever, is profoundly misguided. These people all love their mums, have kids that they love and love them back, and are kind to animals. Far better to think about why they have the views that they do, and try to educate and explain to them why they're wrong.

If all of the 'morons' who voted Tory last time are left to do the same again, then we're gonna wind up with a similar government. Maybe try to suppress the rage, whether justified or not, and just engage with opponents to bring some of them onto your/our side?
Click to expand...
destroyers only know and respect one thing, a bigger nastier destroyer. here endeth the lesson. !
 
ChesterBlue said:
I swear this 13 years of them in power has literally radicalised me from just being a socialist to being an anarchist. Tear it all down honestly, you can’t have “democracy” when you have every piece of news the population consumes coming from media which is mostly directly linked to the Tory party and corporate lobby groups.

They spoon feed people basically from birth that “Marxism is evil” without ever actually teaching people anything about it, because god forbid the working class may realise “that actually sounds better than slaving away in a dead-end job I hate for 40-50 years for a few crumbs of happiness”

Meanwhile we now have greater wealth disparity than probably ever between the rich and the poor, and have 2.5+ million people using food banks, when before the tories took over we had about 20,000 people using them. We are also ruled by people who actively think we are uneducated serfs, who are barely above cattle that they milk for their own good.

When Crassus, perhaps the richest private citizen of all time, was captured by the Parthians, legend has it they killed him by pouring molten gold down his throat. The Romans and most writers throughout history have pitched this as “sure he was rich, but look how much worse the barbarians are”. But now I’m like…
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/stands and applauds
 
Rita_Poon said:
spelling and grammar, that the best you have. what a way to 'engage' huh. sure showed me.
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Well, firstly, I would never seek to sneer at, or ridicule, anyone for a mistake in spelling or grammar. Firstly, that would reflect more discredit on me than on them, and secondly (as I pointed out in an earlier post) that sort of thing is a double edged sword, and there will those more erudite and fastidious than me (I? - see!) who could have a pop at my own errors.

I pointed out a little spelling error to a poster who was dismissing large chunks of our fellow citizens and humans as morons. I was simply trying to illustrate that we can all make errors, whether large or small, and it's dangerous to simply dismiss great dollops of society as moronic. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that....

I became negatively inclined toward you when you made no attempt at reasoned discussion, but simply came out with some tribalist slogan in response to my post, and then had the nerve to call that a 'lesson'. I mentioned your lack of grammar (and possibly I should have said, 'punctuation' - we're, none of us, the fonts of all knowledge), because you made zero effort to conform to the written communication protocols that everyone else does. I don't know you, so can't say whether that's because you're too idle to bother, or think that you're too important, but I hardly think that those are ideal qualities for someone attempting to hand out lessons.

I stand by my original point that political change won't be achieved by getting into an aggressive frenzy amid existing fellow thinkers, but only by reasoned pointing out to others where they've gone wrong.
 
Glasshalffull said:
Well, firstly, I would never seek to sneer at, or ridicule, anyone for a mistake in spelling or grammar. Firstly, that would reflect more discredit on me than on them, and secondly (as I pointed out in an earlier post) that sort of thing is a double edged sword, and there will those more erudite and fastidious than me (I? - see!) who could have a pop at my own errors.

I pointed out a little spelling error to a poster who was dismissing large chunks of our fellow citizens and humans as morons. I was simply trying to illustrate that we can all make errors, whether large or small, and it's dangerous to simply dismiss great dollops of society as moronic. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that....

I became negatively inclined toward you when you made no attempt at reasoned discussion, but simply came out with some tribalist slogan in response to my post, and then had the nerve to call that a 'lesson'. I mentioned your lack of grammar (and possibly I should have said, 'punctuation' - we're, none of us, the fonts of all knowledge), because you made zero effort to conform to the written communication protocols that everyone else does. I don't know you, so can't say whether that's because you're too idle to bother, or think that you're too important, but I hardly think that those are ideal qualities for someone attempting to hand out lessons.

I stand by my original point that political change won't be achieved by getting into an aggressive frenzy amid existing fellow thinkers, but only by reasoned pointing out to others where they've gone wrong.
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i.
and yet...
 
Glasshalffull said:
Well, firstly, I would never seek to sneer at, or ridicule, anyone for a mistake in spelling or grammar. Firstly, that would reflect more discredit on me than on them, and secondly (as I pointed out in an earlier post) that sort of thing is a double edged sword, and there will those more erudite and fastidious than me (I? - see!) who could have a pop at my own errors.

I pointed out a little spelling error to a poster who was dismissing large chunks of our fellow citizens and humans as morons. I was simply trying to illustrate that we can all make errors, whether large or small, and it's dangerous to simply dismiss great dollops of society as moronic. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that....

I became negatively inclined toward you when you made no attempt at reasoned discussion, but simply came out with some tribalist slogan in response to my post, and then had the nerve to call that a 'lesson'. I mentioned your lack of grammar (and possibly I should have said, 'punctuation' - we're, none of us, the fonts of all knowledge), because you made zero effort to conform to the written communication protocols that everyone else does. I don't know you, so can't say whether that's because you're too idle to bother, or think that you're too important, but I hardly think that those are ideal qualities for someone attempting to hand out lessons.

I stand by my original point that political change won't be achieved by getting into an aggressive frenzy amid existing fellow thinkers, but only by reasoned pointing out to others where they've gone wrong.
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That is the way politics is today though mate, listen to the Politicians on all sides really, attack, slur and criticise, been like that for decades. It wins votes and takes the voters attention off...you. Not right but it works, it works because it's allowed one of the most inept, average parties in living memory to be in power for the last 12 years, it also helps quite a bit to have our 90% of the media behind you.
 
mahermi1 said:
That is the way politics is today though mate, listen to the Politicians on all sides really, attack, slur and criticise, been like that for decades. It wins votes and takes the voters attention off...you. Not right but it works, it works because it's allowed one of the most inept, average parties in living memory to be in power for the last 12 years, it also helps quite a bit to have our 90% of the media behind you.
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I'm not disputing at all, mate, that the lowest risk approach in politics is just to criticise the opposition, because that way you don't have to put anything forward that might be attacked in turn. It's not good, and maybe some strong individual in politics will take a different approach someday. We're in agreement, there.

What I was saying that it can't be right to dismiss the mass of our fellow citizens as morons or scum because they vote in a way that we don't like. If we live next door to an elderly lady who was in the forces in WWII and brought up a family of decent people, then she's not an idiot or fundamentally bad if she voted Conservative. Similarly, if there's 35 year-old chap on the other side, who works as a joiner, is always polite and cheerful, and whose kids respect you and others, then he isn't moronic or evil for voting Tory. This country isn't so full of demons that they can vote in a government. Much more useful to try to talk those people round, than just come on here and call them all names, like some do.

Once we get to the point if thinking that anyone who disagrees with us politically is wilfully stupid, or bad, then you soon get to the point if thinking that their opinions and votes are irrelevant, and wind up fantasising about stolen elections like the Trumpites, or eventually happily letting thousands die for your personal ego project like Putin.
 
Glasshalffull said:
I'm not disputing at all, mate, that the lowest risk approach in politics is just to criticise the opposition, because that way you don't have to put anything forward that might be attacked in turn. It's not good, and maybe some strong individual in politics will take a different approach someday. We're in agreement, there.

What I was saying that it can't be right to dismiss the mass of our fellow citizens as morons or scum because they vote in a way that we don't like. If we live next door to an elderly lady who was in the forces in WWII and brought up a family of decent people, then she's not an idiot or fundamentally bad if she voted Conservative. Similarly, if there's 35 year-old chap on the other side, who works as a joiner, is always polite and cheerful, and whose kids respect you and others, then he isn't moronic or evil for voting Tory. This country isn't so full of demons that they can vote in a government. Much more useful to try to talk those people round, than just come on here and call them all names, like some do.

Once we get to the point if thinking that anyone who disagrees with us politically is wilfully stupid, or bad, then you soon get to the point if thinking that their opinions and votes are irrelevant, and wind up fantasising about stolen elections like the Trumpites, or eventually happily letting thousands die for your personal ego project like Putin.
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But you could say that about anyone. I’m not making a comparison just using an example, ‘Good’ people supported the Nazis and countless other disgusting regimes and governments.
If you are voting Tory, you are voting for a party that has over the past 12 years, screwed over the most vulnerable, been responsible for a huge geo political decision with no viable plan as to how it would be implemented, [Poor language removed] up the covid response, causing thousands of needless deaths whilst agreeing backhander deals to make their mates richer. That’s just the tip.
Im sure many tory voters are ‘good’ in the same way many labour voters are arseholes, but you have to take responsibility for you actions and votes and that just doesn’t seem
to happen.
 
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