Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[Walken]

But you could say that about anyone. I’m not making a comparison just using an example, ‘Good’ people supported the Nazis and countless other disgusting regimesv and governments.
If you are voting Tory, you are voting for a party that has over the past 12 years, screwed over the most vulnerable, been responsible for a huge geo political decision with no viable plan as to how it would be implemented, [Poor language removed] up the covid response, causing thousands of needless deaths whilst agreeing backhander deals to make their mates richer. That’s just the tip.
Im sure many tory voters are ‘good’ in the same way many labour voters are arseholes, but you have to take responsibility for you actions and votes and that just doesn’t seem
to happen.

Indeed, the patronising both side-ism comes into onto play when people want to avoid objectively critiquing their own tribe

 

[Rita_Poon]

i.
and yet...

@Glasshalffull

 

[Glasshalffull]

But you could say that about anyone. I’m not making a comparison just using an example, ‘Good’ people supported the Nazis and countless other disgusting regimes and governments.
If you are voting Tory, you are voting for a party that has over the past 12 years, screwed over the most vulnerable, been responsible for a huge geo political decision with no viable plan as to how it would be implemented, [Poor language removed] up the covid response, causing thousands of needless deaths whilst agreeing backhander deals to make their mates richer. That’s just the tip.
Im sure many tory voters are ‘good’ in the same way many labour voters are arseholes, but you have to take responsibility for you actions and votes and that just doesn’t seem
to happen.

Yes, but the way to get people to accept they were wrong and change how they act is by engaging with them about it, just as you've just done with me, and getting them act accordingly. Just calling them scum and morons, either to their face or to your like-thinking mates in the pub won't change anything. Germany, home of the Nazis, is a perfectly reasonable state, now. People there, after the war, were actually shown and told of the horrors that had been committed in their name, and either with their connivance or culpable ignorance. Name calling just wouldn't have made that transformation.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Yes, but the way to get people to accept they were wrong and change how they act is by engaging with them about it, just as you've just done with me, and getting them act accordingly. Just calling them scum and morons, either to their face or to your like-thinking mates in the pub won't change anything. Germany, home of the Nazis, is a perfectly reasonable state, now. People there, after the war, were actually shown and told of the horrors that had been committed in their name, and either with their connivance or culpable ignorance. Name calling just wouldn't have made that transformation.

But all the information is there available for people and yet 25-30% of the population will continue to vote for this party no matter what happens. I bet even Matt Hancock would win a bi election in his constituency if he ran on a Tory ticket.
You can try arguing reasonably, but when you faced with a wall of whataboutary and deflection instead of reasonable counter arguments you’d be forgiven for people losing their rag. This isn’t the traditional political dichotomy of old.

 

[roydo]

But all the information is there available for people and yet 25-30% of the population will continue to vote for this party no matter what happens. I bet even Matt Hancock would win a bi election in his constituency if he ran on a Tory ticket.
You can try arguing reasonably, but when you faced with a wall of whataboutary and deflection instead of reasonable counter arguments you’d be forgiven for people losing their rag. This isn’t the traditional political dichotomy of old.

Its how it is. Most folk just dont follow the intricacies of party politics. You see it on here at times, "I have always supported Labour" "I would never vote Tory". And vice versa.

Everton being a football club in Liverpool will always have an anti Tory stance in its supporter base. I guess, actually, that isnt unique to Everton.

I was chosen to be a Blue miles before I knew what a Politic even was. I havnt been local for 50 years, (and thats being generous as Neston aint exactly a Labour hotbed I would imagine, nor local). So maybe I just dont get it.

 

[Rita_Poon]

£3.2 Billion for 26 vehicles thus far for the mod. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/22-critical-ajax-armoured-vehicle-issues-remain-unresolved/

 

[Glasshalffull]

But all the information is there available for people and yet 25-30% of the population will continue to vote for this party no matter what happens. I bet even Matt Hancock would win a bi election in his constituency if he ran on a Tory ticket.
You can try arguing reasonably, but when you faced with a wall of whataboutary and deflection instead of reasonable counter arguments you’d be forgiven for people losing their rag. This isn’t the traditional political dichotomy of old.

Well, I don't know what's in their heads, mate, which is why I propose engagement. They might view the EU as an economic disaster for the UK, and have felt getting us out of it was the main priority, and the benefits to the economy would benefit everyone and the public purse. Maybe they considered some Labour policy disastrous. There are a milion and one things that they might be thinking.

Maybe some of them aren't thinking at all, and exhibiting the sort of tribalism I'm arguing against on here, and they have such closed minds as to believe that a rubbish one of ours is better than a genius saint on the enemy side. All I can say with certainty is that 99% of them won't be voting because they specifically want to see more homeless people, kids going hungry, and people dying because the NHS is run down. Given that, I believe there to be scope reasoned argument, even if it has to be tried repeatedly in many different ways. Giving up, and hurling abuse, achieves nothing is all I'm saying.

 

[JammyP]

 

[Rita_Poon]

Well, I don't know what's in their heads, mate, which is why I propose engagement. They might view the EU as an economic disaster for the UK, and have felt getting us out of it was the main priority, and the benefits to the economy would benefit everyone and the public purse. Maybe they considered some Labour policy disastrous. There are a milion and one things that they might be thinking.

Maybe some of them aren't thinking at all, and exhibiting the sort of tribalism I'm arguing against on here, and they have such closed minds as to believe that a rubbish one of ours is better than a genius saint on the enemy side. All I can say with certainty is that 99% of them won't be voting because they specifically want to see more homeless people, kids going hungry, and people dying because the NHS is run down. Given that, I believe there to be scope reasoned argument, even if it has to be tried repeatedly in many different ways. Giving up, and hurling abuse, achieves nothing is all I'm saying.

'sir' gavin williamson.

 

[JammyP]

'sir' gavin williamson.

Ok. Engagement with Williamson likely to achieve not a lot. Some people have earned their insults.

But we can't give up on the people Johnson and his acolytes conned. They deserve better

 

[Rita_Poon]

Ok. Engagement with Williamson likely to achieve not a lot. Some people have earned their insults.

But we can't give up on the people Johnson and his acolytes conned. They deserve better

Some wanted the con, some swallowed it merrily, theres been to much cutting off of noses to spite others faces. Thats the word, Spite. Thats how I view this current crop of shysters, and the legion of demented harm doers that champion them in the voting booths. An old slight was the 'boom and bust' of labour stewardship, well, 'bust and buster' re whats turning up in a few days is going to really betray a lot of families. For those against the tories my deepest sympathy, for those that support them, they can enjoy every moment of it.

 

[Glasshalffull]

'sir' gavin williamson.

You annoy me in many ways, pal, particularly your tendency to communicate via minimalist, staccato, mini-sentences, and phrases*, but you do also make me chuckle sometimes via the same linguistic tools, as in this case. (I mean chuckle in a good way along with you, and definitely not at you at all). Excellent work!

* I do acknowledge that you've just produced a fuller length post, by the way.

 

[Rita_Poon]

You annoy me in many ways, pal, particularly your tendency to communicate via minimalist, staccato, mini-sentences, and phrases*, but you do also make me chuckle sometimes via the same linguistic tools, as in this case. (I mean chuckle in a good way along with you, and definitely not at you at all). Excellent work!

* I do acknowledge that you've just produced a fuller length post, by the way.

 

[Dharma]

£3.2 Billion for 26 vehicles thus far for the mod. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/22-critical-ajax-armoured-vehicle-issues-remain-unresolved/

The sums of money and levels of corruption get beyond belief.

No wonder Jeremy says we must up our game to pay for it all.

 

[Thomasc]

https://goodlawproject.org/update/d...d1KZ0aOT-TvQ9U3cMDCIs0vX31P0lj6vMWdp5TbXWa0Lo

Oh look @peteblue your poster boy has been found acting unlawfully again. I have to say I’m totally shocked at this news.