Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[peteblue]

lol

I know, but I've been the pub. Let's pretend I said negative eh......

 

[Groucho]

Forget the national debt. It rises as we borrow money. The trick is to look at our national deficit, I.e. the amount of money we spend compared to what we earn. We have been spending more, so we have to borrow more, so the debt rises. The government has been reducing the deficit and when it hits zero and turns positive, I.e we spend less than we earn, the borrowings will fall and then the debt will reduce. The debt follows the deficit......

No mate, the reason for all this deficit stuff, and therefore their austerity measures, was to lower the national debt (not the same as deficit) - which they have seen rise considerably.

At the expense of folk here; https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/bedroom-tax-echo-readers-react-9914491.amp

 

[peteblue]

No mate, the reason for all this deficit stuff, and therefore their austerity measures, was to lower the national debt (not the same as deficit) - which they have seen rise considerably.

At the expense of folk here; https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/bedroom-tax-echo-readers-react-9914491.amp

Of course we wish to lower the debt but you cannot lower the debt unless you get rid of the ongoing deficit. The financial measures, or austerity as you call it, are to reduce the deficit until the net income to the government actually turns positive. Only at that point can the overall debt start to be reduced. I can't really put it any simpler.....

 

[Groucho]

Of course we wish to lower the debt but you cannot lower the debt unless you get rid of the ongoing deficit. The financial measures, or austerity as you call it, are to reduce the deficit until the net income to the government actually turns positive. Only at that point can the overall debt start to be reduced. I can't really put it any simpler.....

But they've seen it rise dramatically.

 

[peteblue]

But they've seen it rise dramatically.

That's because they still have to pay everyone's wages, investment etc running the various government entities and because the tax take is less than expenditure we have to borrow the difference. So until the deficit, which is reducing, is eliminated then the debt has to rise.

Once the deficit has gone, we can start paying off the debt with the money that the UK is generating.....

 

[Groucho]

That's because they still have to pay everyone's wages, investment etc running the various government entities and because the tax take is less than expenditure we have to borrow the difference. So until the deficit, which is reducing, is eliminated then the debt has to rise.

Once the deficit has gone, we can start paying off the debt with the money that the UK is generating.....

This explains things quite well and bias-free I feel - no party comes out smelling of roses.

https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

Taking that into account, I still feel that governments have a duty of care to their citizens and people should be cared for rather than seen as leeches which is all too often the view of some.

 

[peteblue]

This explains things quite well and bias-free I feel - no party comes out smelling of roses.

https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

Taking that into account, I still feel that governments have a duty of care to its citizens and people should be cared for rather than seen as leeches which is all too often the view of some.

And that's the balance. Once the crash happened and all that money was spent on the banks and keeping the money supply going, debt had to rise, but there are only so many things a government can do. We could just carry on borrowing in a reckless manner and watch the interest on our loans go through the roof while the £ disappears. Cut back public services expenditure. Raise taxes for everybody. Grow the economy so large that the debt is small potatoes. The coalition government did the right thing I believe by cutting back public expenditure, but in measured and tolerable amounts while growing the economy. I think Brown probably would have done the same....

 

[abelard]

And that's the balance. Once the crash happened and all that money was spent on the banks and keeping the money supply going, debt had to rise, but there are only so many things a government can do. We could just carry on borrowing in a reckless manner and watch the interest on our loans go through the roof while the £ disappears. Cut back public services expenditure. Raise taxes for everybody. Grow the economy so large that the debt is small potatoes. The coalition government did the right thing I believe by cutting back public expenditure, but in measured and tolerable amounts while growing the economy. I think Brown probably would have done the same....

Except that because of the austerity, the economy has grown at historically pathetic rates, post-recession (compare this with the US, which, thank god, did not have Republicans anywhere near the levers of power after the crash they'd done so much to create)

And the Tories didn't raise taxes on everybody - they used the savings from extracting the assets of the poor in order to cut taxes for people who already have more money than they know what to do with.

This was not an economic strategy, it was a transparent and cynical campaign to use the power of the state to transfer wealth from poor to rich. The economy has suffered enormously as a result.

And now even the meagre post-recession growth has evaporated thanks to Brexit, even as economic growth takes off in the EU. Wages are stagnant even as inflation soars because you destroyed the Pound via Brexit. Britons' standard of living is demonstrably decreasing every month. Personal debt levels are soaring, because austerity has shifted the burden onto people whose stagnant incomes have less purchasing power by the day. For the first time since the war, an entire generation effectively can't afford a simple home. Hundreds of thousands of people are no longer able to feed themselves. And, unbelievably, more cuts are coming.

Your description above is a complete fantasy. Tories and Brexiters can't even admit the damage that they've wrought, let alone begin to address it.

Thanks grandpa.

For all the whining and hand-wringing about Corbyn, it's actually astonishing that we haven't seen something like the 2011 riots, intensified tenfold, on a national scale. The ladder-pulling generation is too dull, comfortable, and self-satisfied to realize that it's playing with fire here... you might not be so lucky as to have a polite, scrupulously constitutional vegetarian gardener leading the opposition to your devastating greed and myopia.

 

[Groucho]

And that's the balance. Once the crash happened and all that money was spent on the banks and keeping the money supply going, debt had to rise, but there are only so many things a government can do. We could just carry on borrowing in a reckless manner and watch the interest on our loans go through the roof while the £ disappears. Cut back public services expenditure. Raise taxes for everybody. Grow the economy so large that the debt is small potatoes. The coalition government did the right thing I believe by cutting back public expenditure, but in measured and tolerable amounts while growing the economy. I think Brown probably would have done the same....

The treatment of the sick and disabled is nothing short of shambolic mate.

Those genuinely suffering are not those who created the problem, yet those who did create it are allowed to rake it in.

I find that really bad.

 

[peteblue]

Except that because of the austerity, the economy has grown at historically pathetic rates, post-recession (compare this with the US, which, thank god, did not have Republicans anywhere near the levers of power after the crash they'd done so much to create)

And the Tories didn't raise taxes on everybody - they used the savings from extracting the assets of the poor in order to cut taxes for people who already have more money than they know what to do with.

This was not an economic strategy, it was a transparent and cynical campaign to use the power of the state to transfer wealth from poor to rich. The economy has suffered enormously as a result.

And now even the meagre post-recession growth has evaporated thanks to Brexit, even as economic growth takes off in the EU. Wages are stagnant even as inflation soars because you destroyed the Pound via Brexit. Britons' standard of living is demonstrably decreasing every month. Personal debt levels are soaring, because austerity has shifted the burden onto people whose stagnant incomes have less purchasing power by the day. For the first time since the war, an entire generation effectively can't afford a simple home. Hundreds of thousands of people are no longer able to feed themselves. And, unbelievably, more cuts are coming.

Your description above is a complete fantasy. Tories and Brexiters can't even admit the damage that they've wrought, let alone begin to address it.

Thanks grandpa.

For all the whining and hand-wringing about Corbyn, it's actually astonishing that we haven't seen something like the 2011 riots, intensified tenfold, on a national scale. The ladder-pulling generation is too dull, comfortable, and self-satisfied to realize that it's playing with fire here... you might not be so lucky as to have a polite, scrupulously constitutional vegetarian gardener leading the opposition to your devastating greed and myopia.

I knew it must be my fault. Working for 50 years, paying extortionate taxes, raising a family, paying a mortgage, paying for each of my children through University, clearing their debts before helping each to buy a home. Proper greed and myopia on my part. I can only apologise......sorry kids.....

 

[peteblue]

The treatment of the sick and disabled is nothing short of shambolic mate.

Those genuinely suffering are not those who created the problem, they those who did create it are allowed to rake it in.

I find that really bad.

I'd have strung them all up......no, not the sick and disabled obv......

 

[abelard]

I knew it must be my fault. Working for 50 years, paying extortionate taxes, raising a family, paying a mortgage, paying for each of my children through University, clearing their debts before helping each to buy a home. Proper greed and myopia on my part. I can only apologise......sorry kids.....

Its not personal. Young people just want the same opportunities that their parents enjoyed.

Your description of the post-crash economy, and the government response, is simply not true.

 

[orchard]

 

[summerisle]

 

[Donald Twain]