DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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Not once did I say he was far left. I said 'very left wing' how would you define Corbyn?
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DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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Go back and read I never once said far left. Corbyn self identifies as a socialist, which by definition is further left than Starmer who does not identify as a socialist.
I like how he put me in as a fracking supporter because I wouldn't invest in coal, I can get behind that sort of debate technique
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
'very left wing' or 'far left' is just semantics. i would say corbyn was a social democrat and the labour manifesto reflected that, absolutely nothing scary in it.
which parts did you think were very left wing?
Guess so. Yet one of the reasons for coming out of the EU is seemingly to allow less regulation, right?
So not impossible to bring some kind of influence to bear via some mechanism at that time?
Collective blind eyes turned.
Anyhow, back to now and we can see our current government have clearly directly caused financial difficulties with THEIR actions. No hiding from that one.
Lobster Johnson
Player Valuation: £35m
Setting aside the naming debate, the Corbyn manifesto was offering more state involvement in the economy than any government since the 60s.
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
Player Valuation: £10m
He says himself he is a socialist.
Why are you bringing the manifesto into this?
The point I was trying to make is Starmer is much more electable than Corbyn so I would accept a shift towards the centre in regards to policy if it meant we actually got a labour gvmt. simple.
Here's the thing. You've got people at the moment crowing that since the Tories have rowed back on a bunch of stuff that they're not "true Conservatives" anymore, and this whole schtick around Labour isn't really any different. Those that back a strongly left-wing stance are a left-wing version of the ERG. I'm just not sure they realise it.
Just the way I feel, doesn't mean that you and I are right, but I feel this version of the Tory party is truly selfish and evil and needs to be removed asap. Much more chance of that with Starmer in charge as Corbyn, sad but true.
Years ago the Labour Party had a leader called Michael Foot, brilliant man, fantastic ideals, which I agreed with wholeheartedly, but media led by the disgusting Murdock empire ensured he would never get in power, even though he deserved to. Same as today even more so the media can terrify/ intimidate people into voting for who they want. Better for a more Centrist Labour party in power than an ultra right wing tory party in government.
That is all fair enough, but your question was really more of a statement than a question with only one real option of reply.
I would prefer Corbyn and mcdonnels government to Starmers, I'm also on record as a party member who voted for Starmer as leader in a move of realism to getting the tories out of power, so in essence I agree with you. My voting for Starmer and sacrifying some of my ideological beliefs is a result of seeing 12 years of sheer cruelty to the most vulnerable and I feel is the most sensible option to choose. I certainly don't correlate my choosing Starmer over another Corbyn as anything like a Labour voter switching to a scumbag like Johnson because of Corbyn or electing a slimeball like cameron because of 'red' Ed Milliband, and that seems to be the argument quite a few posters are making with the thank god Labour got their act together stuff (not the point you are making I know).
With clean coal? Do you know gas is only 20% cleaner than ordinary coal? Plus is fired out at head height, not high up in a Chimney...
The biggest polluter we have come from aeroplanes burning pure crude paraffin -
The coal i have purchased in the last two years, a bit more expensive, is made in a factory as oval shaped nuggets - my Chimney sweep remarked far less soot in the Chimney ......
Plus I burn Birch sawdust logs glued together in square blocks - they run all my central heating - hot water in the winter .....very economical too......
Poland has over 300 coal mines plus the coal is shale coal - cheap rubbish - Germany have just started opening their coal mines again ...
The myth of going green, when this is happening all over the world, is a farce -
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
because even if he was a socialist the manifesto he ran on was far from that.
starmer is only supposedly more electable because hes an establishment plant that wont change anything.
either way it wont matter now, the UK is in a death spiral and i'd be staggered if it finds a way out at this point.
You're parroting Trump Joe. Do you really want to do that?
Clearing Up the Facts Behind Trump’s 'Clean Coal' Catchphrase - FactCheck.org
President Trump loves to extol "clean coal." But an exceedingly small amount of coal is used in a way that most people would consider clean.
www.factcheck.org
Googling again Bruce -You're parroting Trump Joe. Do you really want to do that?
Clearing Up the Facts Behind Trump’s 'Clean Coal' Catchphrase - FactCheck.org
President Trump loves to extol "clean coal." But an exceedingly small amount of coal is used in a way that most people would consider clean.
Development of new 'clean coal' technologies is attempting to address this problem so that the world's enormous resources of coal can be utilised for future generations without contributing to global warming. Much of the challenge is in commercialising the technology so that coal use would remain economically competitive despite the cost of achieving low, and eventually 'near-zero', emissions. The technologies are both costly and energy-intensive.-
& we have millions of tons of coal -
Lobster Johnson
Player Valuation: £35m
How much carbon do each of these miracle cures produce Joe?
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