Current Affairs The Conservative Party

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I’m sure it was, but when your entire victory is based on lying to accomplish something that was ALWAYS going to be disasterous, AND you then use fealty to that disaster as the shibboleth for even being allowed to remain in the party…

What we’re seeing now is the natural conclusion

It was always said that Europe would destroy the Conservative party. And it seems to be doing so. You sense it is going to be a long way back for them once this is done.
 
Their problem (and this was true for every government from Blair onwards) is that you cannot fight reality with ideology and spin.

Their stated goal - to reign in public spending and promote growth - is possible to achieve. However to do that, they would have to go through the budget and remove all waste, and prioritize measures that promote growth.

To reduce waste, that means eliminating a lot of things that were never reigned in after 2008 (in fact they've gotten much worse) - PFI, outsourcing, consultants brought in to advise governments, procurement (of "skills" and materials), artificial internal markets, rigged privatizations and so on. Sorting those things out would save tens / hundreds of billions over the medium and long term. They'd also have to genuinely simplify the tax regime to remove fiddles, as well as bring in liability for those who profit from helping tax avoidance take place, and keep tight and effective control of what they were funding. This would mean no taxpayer-funded away days, wine tastings, excessive (as in above that contractually required) payouts, strict oversight of local government and promotion of an accountability regime that held all those who abused the public purse criminally liable.

To promote growth, they'd have to spend only on things that would result in that - so for a start anything that can reduce pressure on the cost of living and thereby reduce the pressure on wages (so more energy efficiency and energy generation, public transport, social housing, improved communication links etc). They'd also need measures to eliminate monopolies, clean up markets (an honest services legal requirement for all executives of a company most of all) and encourage small business development (things like eliminating business rates for small firms and making the high streets much more open to independent shops). The Amazons and Ubers of this world would also need to pay a rate of tax that reflects the contribution the rest of society makes to their success. If workers are to use the gig economy, they need to have support (in terms of secure homes etc) and the ability to retrain for new jobs as needed.

To do both would need proper honest engagement with the public. People are not stupid, they understand the mess we are in and they will (or at least the vast majority will) play their part in what is required to fix things. What they will not accept, indeed what should never be accepted, is the vast majority of the country doing its bit whilst its leaders and the richest 5% rake it in.

Truss and Kwarteng's main problem was that, thanks to their beliefs, they couldn't do any of the above or indeed anything that would actually help with what they claimed to want to do. They sabotaged their own government and are now rightfully going to be chased out of office.

My only hope is that their replacement, as their first act, is honest with us about the scale of our problems and what needs to be done. They need to tell us that only together will we get through this and that their government will act on that basis; there will be no more culture wars, no more union bashing, no more political gesturing. They then need to actually do that.
Really well articulated mate. I am always cynical when governments talk about cutting waste/making departments more efficient. It's like new football managers saying they'll get the team fitter. If it was that easy why didn't the other guy do it.

I think what you've put makes sense though. To genuinely solve those issues requires honesty, hard work and self sacrifice with not much of that around in government.
 
Congrats on leveling up UK! You've taken the next step on the road to fascism which is not even bothering to feign any empathy anymore.

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We ought to have a quick referendum on Brexit again. I'm pretty sure that the results would be very different! The Brexit thing is actually the main problem.
The NHS promises and the appeals to the xenophobia types proved to be false. We're desperate for workers in health and education.
It's not too late to rescue this country before it breaks up.
 
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Just read a biog on Kwarteng. Comes from a very educated background, even won university challenge.

How do they manage to get things so wrong. Arrogance? Lack of real world experience? Mind blowing that the outcome was so obvious yet they still did it.
Education does not equal intelligence or even wisdom. University challenge is just a pub quiz for dweebs.

But the answers to your questions are yes and yes.
 
Just read a biog on Kwarteng. Comes from a very educated background, even won university challenge.

How do they manage to get things so wrong. Arrogance? Lack of real world experience? Mind blowing that the outcome was so obvious yet they still did it.
Ah yes. But he came from Eton. Rishi is Winchester and they are much cleverer.
 
Just read a biog on Kwarteng. Comes from a very educated background, even won university challenge.

How do they manage to get things so wrong. Arrogance? Lack of real world experience? Mind blowing that the outcome was so obvious yet they still did it.

Both. Would add the "mini budget" was the door opening to a path which would have led to libertarian Britain, what they did economically was long held belief

Truss and Kwarteng with others outlined in their book "Britannia Unchained" some years earlier. Make no mistake the Conservatives continue to be at war with themselves and direction. The likes of these two as others recently normally sit on the fringe never to be near levers of power.

Another is Steve Baker, he is a marvel ([Poor language removed]) just read how he himself becomes to be libertarian, it's all intwined with sermons from Christian bible.
 
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We ought to have a quick referendum on Brexit again. I'm pretty sure that the results would be very different! The Brexit thing is actually the main problem.
The NHS promises and the appeals to the xenophobia types proved to be false. We're desperate for workers in health and education.
It's not too late to rescue this country before it breaks up.
I was always pro-Europe and was therefore disappointed with the Brexit outcome, so the idea of a referendum would be something I'd be in favour of.

However, would the EU welcome us back with open arms? I'm not so sure any more. Still, I think it'd be better than the situation we're currently in.

We've had a run on our currency, long term financial instability knocking on the door, which I doubt we'll fully recover from, with four chancellors in four months.

Truss won't last long, either. Maybe Sunak would have been the best option in the short term for everyone, whether you're a Conservative or not - which I'm not.
 
….Jeremy Hunt trying to steady the ship in his first interview as Chancellor, accepting the mistakes in the mini-budget and suggesting Government Departments will have severe spending restrictions.

What a surprise, public services are already in a mess and are now facing more austerity.
 
We ought to have a quick referendum on Brexit again. I'm pretty sure that the results would be very different! The Brexit thing is actually the main problem.
The NHS promises and the appeals to the xenophobia types proved to be false. We're desperate for workers in health and education.
It's not too late to rescue this country before it breaks up.
Break up, as in the Kingdom, can only be a good thing. There is something deeply rotten in English culture a laissez faire attitude to other fellow people suffering, it's generalisation but a prevailing stench the Conservative party too easily latches onto.

I'm of no doubt had run on pensions not happened and interest rates not been ramped up by the direct actions of Truss and her previous chancellor those who normally not exposed to the stick that Tory government like to beat less well of people with would continue to look the other way.

Now that materialistic harm has come to this part of society all hell has broken loose.
 
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