The Bottom Line

[Neiler]

As I said chico. At the start of the season we were worse before Fellaini arrived. To focus all blame and attention on him is wide of the mark in my opinion.

The problem isn't the new 20-year-old foreign signing who needs time to settle. Been "awful a lot of the times you have seen him" a lot? How many games has he played? he's had three MOTMs on here - the problem isn't Fellaini - its the established Yakubus,Lescotts,Artetas etc,

Couldnt agree more, hes only twenty and performing to a higher standard then the Vaghans and Anichebes that we all make allowences for due to their age/expierence.

Whats clear is he is suffering from lack of expierneced players being arsed in terms of helping him in the midfeild. Hes been one of our best players this season. If oyu close your eyes you can imagine just how good he would be with Lee Carsley in the team.

I think its more about the players we dont have in the team to play with Fellini rather his performence or question of quality in it. That said tonight he was clearly not match fit.

But hey AVDM may come good!

 

[ToxtethBlue]

As I said chico. At the start of the season we were worse before Fellaini arrived. To focus all blame and attention on him is wide of the mark in my opinion.

The problem isn't the new 20-year-old foreign signing who needs time to settle. Been "awful a lot of the times you have seen him" a lot? How many games has he played? he's had three MOTMs on here - the problem isn't Fellaini - its the established Yakubus,Lescotts,Artetas etc,

The problem is the team, Fellaini is a part of the team.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The problem is the team, Fellaini is a part of the team.

Spot on.

Yet, a lot of fans seem to focus their attention on Fellaini. Shocking really. The amount of abuse he has had is a joke.

He needs time and for fans to ease the price tag pressure on his young shoulders.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I didn't see any of our midfielders hold any position tonight. No shape whatsoever. Too close together most of the time, getting in each other's way far too often, looked like the school playground. Thought Saha was our best player until Howard was forced to better him.
We really are screaming out for a winger Especially as our full backs are so reluctant to get forward. Oh for a Valencia or a Palacios. Not asking for much, is it? [Poor language removed] it, is Harry Kewell available?

 

[McBain]

Neville got forward two or three times, and put in some awful crosses. We need two defensive wingers who will get into that space every time. Baines can do it but Nev's the weakest link.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Neville got forward two or three times, and put in some awful crosses. We need two defensive wingers who will get into that space every time. Baines can do it but Nev's the weakest link.

I stand corrected. We do have a fullback who can get forward and cross the ball But a manager who's reluctant to play him.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

it doesnt matter who plays where tbh, cos everything has to go via phil neville wherever we are on the pitch.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

i've told you ,"fellaini needs to feel the love".

 

[Brownie]

I don't normally get angry when we lose, I usually just sulk. For some reason though I'm absolutely livid after watching that for two hours. We started quite well in terms of work rate and enthusiasm, but then we didn't score from a long throw in the first 5 minutes everything completely fell away. Why, oh why we try to do long throw bullshit is beyond me, what are we Stoke? Fair enough it's a 'weapon' with a 6"4 midfielder, but so, so many times players turned their back on a throw in. Where's the brightness, the enthusiasm, who actually wants to play football for [Poor language removed] sake?

Their goal was unbelievably easy to score, once again absolutely no midfield cover whatsoever and Joleon losing another 1v1. That's about 54 this season, when it was his greatest strength last.

Marouane 'Jog' Fellaini, I'll defend his ability all day long, but it's hard to do anything when you're always four miles away from the action. I take back what I said about being potentially as good as Alonso, he can change direction at the drop of a hat, Marouane has the turning circle of the QE2.

Cahill was average at best, from previous standards should've scored a hattrick tonight. Can understand criticism, his allround play wasn't very good, but he still had most of our chances, can't believe he didn't take at least one.

Plus points are few. I thought Saha was awesome first half, he has the same arrogance about his play I talked about in another thread. He can turn and run at defenders, he's got frightening acceleration, the likes of which we haven't seen for ages.

Set pieces aside, Mikel was ace second half. He is so much better in the middle it's untrue, he was sprinting around all over the place, tracking back, starting moves, generally being the real Arteta. Bash him all you want, but fact is if we had 4 Artetas across our midfield we'd be [Poor language removed] amazing. He can play every position in it, he's that good.

Most of all though, WHAT THE [Poor language removed] DAVID MOYES? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO PLAY [Poor language removed] FOR YOU TO CHANGE THINGS? Our midfield is absolutely [Poor language removed] terrible, no one knows what they're doing, there's no cohesion whatsoever. We have two of the best strikers in the league up front and we can't make a single chance, against [Poor language removed] Wigan! Imagine how many goals Yak and Saha would score if they played for a team with a midfield, it's [Poor language removed] outrageous, it really is.

 

[chicoazul]

As I said chico. At the start of the season we were worse before Fellaini arrived. To focus all blame and attention on him is wide of the mark in my opinion.

The problem isn't the new 20-year-old foreign signing who needs time to settle. Been "awful a lot of the times you have seen him" a lot? How many games has he played? he's had three MOTMs on here - the problem isn't Fellaini - its the established Yakubus,Lescotts,Artetas etc,

I agree fully mate but he does need to step his game up a bit, as do many others.

I can only go what Ive seen which in the scheme of things isnt mucho but I hate half arsed attempts from players and even if he doesnt do it intentionally its a part of his game I dont like.

He'll be boss when we're 2-0 up like.

 

[TX Bill]

I don't normally get angry when we lose, I usually just sulk. For some reason though I'm absolutely livid after watching that for two hours. We started quite well in terms of work rate and enthusiasm, but then we didn't score from a long throw in the first 5 minutes everything completely fell away. Why, oh why we try to do long throw bullshit is beyond me, what are we Stoke? Fair enough it's a 'weapon' with a 6"4 midfielder, but so, so many times players turned their back on a throw in. Where's the brightness, the enthusiasm, who actually wants to play football for [Poor language removed] sake?

Their goal was unbelievably easy to score, once again absolutely no midfield cover whatsoever and Joleon losing another 1v1. That's about 54 this season, when it was his greatest strength last.

Marouane 'Jog' Fellaini, I'll defend his ability all day long, but it's hard to do anything when you're always four miles away from the action. I take back what I said about being potentially as good as Alonso, he can change direction at the drop of a hat, Marouane has the turning circle of the QE2.

Cahill was average at best, from previous standards should've scored a hattrick tonight. Can understand criticism, his allround play wasn't very good, but he still had most of our chances, can't believe he didn't take at least one.

Plus points are few. I thought Saha was awesome first half, he has the same arrogance about his play I talked about in another thread. He can turn and run at defenders, he's got frightening acceleration, the likes of which we haven't seen for ages.

Set pieces aside, Mikel was ace second half. He is so much better in the middle it's untrue, he was sprinting around all over the place, tracking back, starting moves, generally being the real Arteta. Bash him all you want, but fact is if we had 4 Artetas across our midfield we'd be [Poor language removed] amazing. He can play every position in it, he's that good.

Most of all though, WHAT THE [Poor language removed] DAVID MOYES? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO PLAY [Poor language removed] FOR YOU TO CHANGE THINGS? Our midfield is absolutely [Poor language removed] terrible, no one knows what they're doing, there's no cohesion whatsoever. We have two of the best strikers in the league up front and we can't make a single chance, against [Poor language removed] Wigan! Imagine how many goals Yak and Saha would score if they played for a team with a midfield, it's [Poor language removed] outrageous, it really is.

That move that Saha put on the two Wigan players right before minute 35 and accelerated away from them was a thing of beauty. Too bad nothing came of it.

I've been saying for awhile that we need to move Arteta into the middle of the park so that he can:

1) See more of the ball
2) Create more with the ball
3) Relieve the pressure on the rest of our midfielders so that we can possess the ball a bit more.

I know that leaves us with a hole on the wing assuming Pienaar is on the other wing but I'd rather have the hole there than in the middle of the park.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Moyes just doesnt know what he is doing.

Our midfield doesnt protect our defence at all, we need to fix it, but Moyes doesnt like Castillo so [Poor language removed] that.

His substitutions are nothing short of DIRE.

His tactics are terrible - dont put strikers on the wing, and dont put cahill on there either. And TAKE ARTETA OFF SET PIECES. Seriously, i genuinally thing Neville would do a better job.

He is scared to drop the bigger players.

We clearly need to change the team around, cos something isnt right, but Moyes, no, what does moyes think? "Baines clearly isnt as good as Lescott, so im not giving him a chance"

Moyes doesnt play the players he doesnt like. Van Der Meyde the example. Atleast he would have a shot or two outside of the box.

Another thing - why doesnt he start Anichebe or Vaughan who are both 20, when Fellaini automatically starts?! I dont understand. Give one of them a chance, Yakubu has looked terrible. It would be interesting to see how many shots he has had this season. Id say about 6.

Just a joke...

Some good points, Dom. Moyes had had ample time to create a good midfield, yet has failed to do so. He brings players in, yet doesn't play them. He plays people in the wrong position. He allows Lescott to goal-hang, yet leave his station at the back totally unmarked. He lets Arteta continue to take free kicks and corners even though he can't get it past the first man. Moyes, he on £3.5m a year, is responsible for the players we have, the tactics we play and the current [Poor language removed] football.

 

[kenada_blue]

Im not liking the fact the Yak might not hit 15-20 goals this season -- the first time he aint done it for a team.

Says a lot.

 

[Neiler]

I don't normally get angry when we lose, I usually just sulk. For some reason though I'm absolutely livid after watching that for two hours. We started quite well in terms of work rate and enthusiasm, but then we didn't score from a long throw in the first 5 minutes everything completely fell away. Why, oh why we try to do long throw bullshit is beyond me, what are we Stoke? Fair enough it's a 'weapon' with a 6"4 midfielder, but so, so many times players turned their back on a throw in. Where's the brightness, the enthusiasm, who actually wants to play football for [Poor language removed] sake?

Their goal was unbelievably easy to score, once again absolutely no midfield cover whatsoever and Joleon losing another 1v1. That's about 54 this season, when it was his greatest strength last.

Marouane 'Jog' Fellaini, I'll defend his ability all day long, but it's hard to do anything when you're always four miles away from the action. I take back what I said about being potentially as good as Alonso, he can change direction at the drop of a hat, Marouane has the turning circle of the QE2.

Cahill was average at best, from previous standards should've scored a hattrick tonight. Can understand criticism, his allround play wasn't very good, but he still had most of our chances, can't believe he didn't take at least one.

Plus points are few. I thought Saha was awesome first half, he has the same arrogance about his play I talked about in another thread. He can turn and run at defenders, he's got frightening acceleration, the likes of which we haven't seen for ages.

Set pieces aside, Mikel was ace second half. He is so much better in the middle it's untrue, he was sprinting around all over the place, tracking back, starting moves, generally being the real Arteta. Bash him all you want, but fact is if we had 4 Artetas across our midfield we'd be [Poor language removed] amazing. He can play every position in it, he's that good.

Most of all though, WHAT THE [Poor language removed] DAVID MOYES? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO PLAY [Poor language removed] FOR YOU TO CHANGE THINGS? Our midfield is absolutely [Poor language removed] terrible, no one knows what they're doing, there's no cohesion whatsoever. We have two of the best strikers in the league up front and we can't make a single chance, against [Poor language removed] Wigan! Imagine how many goals Yak and Saha would score if they played for a team with a midfield, it's [Poor language removed] outrageous, it really is.

Excellent post! mate, nail head hit!

 

[Neiler]

Im not liking the fact the Yak might not hit 15-20 goals this season -- the first time he aint done it for a team.

Says a lot.

Im not blaming the strikers and i think some of the criticism of the Yak is unfair. I thought he worked his socks of last night, he came extreamly deep which he shouldnt have had to do if we had any guile. My cirticism of the Yak is that he is perhaps to over confident, and i mean that when he is in possecion of the ball. A few times this season he has lost posscession sloppily which has led to goals, and usually at times when our defenders are pushing out and are caught out of position, usually Lescott. I think other teams have copped on to Lescotts positioning at full back, i feel some criticism of him is unfair as obviously Moyes has told him to provide width and get forward as much as he can. Its not rocket sceince for other managers to realise that if a left back scores 10 goals in a season that there are going to be gaps at the back and subsequently chances available down the left, teams have copped on to our tactics. His form hasnt been awfull at left back and he offers us much going forward but hes not a left back and he would say that himself. It needs to be Baines.

In terms of the Yak, i think we all know hes quality, the problem for me lies in creating the chances! Where do many of our chances come from? The wings, thats where! Every team knows that our full backs push on and overlap our wingers and get crosses in the box. Its not rocket sceince, other teams play good tall strong centre backs, who mop up all these ball regularly, lets face it we have been found out.

How can we change this, well in short we cant our midfeld is dreadfully unbalanced we have no threat coming from the centre what so ever, no one to get the ball go past players or move pocession slowly up the pitch intricately. Do we have the players to do this? We do! I beleive Piennar, Fellini and Arteta are more then capable of doing this, admittedly we need a Thiago or a Mouthino, as well as a Dm. But currently Moyes has our whole midfelid galloping into the box to get on the end of headers form hopeless corsses rather then looking at creating a threat through the centre. There is absolutley no plan B apart from sending in crosses. By doing this we are undermineing the quality we do have squad, the Yak and Saha being prime examples two of potentially the best strikers in the leauge, waiting for hit and hope balls, when they can easily make something happen with a sniff of an intellgent or intricate passing movement.

So when the attack breaks down and Fellini, Cahill, Saha, Yak are in the box and our wingers and full backs are caught dangerously out of position up the flanks we get mugged on the counter, as we have the smallest player in the team in Osman playing a deep midfeild role, subsequently our central defenders get pulled out of position trying to fill gaps because the fullbacks are out of position.

For me again the problem lies in midfelid both in the creative department as theirs no plan b in terms of attacking and in terms of defending i.e. no defensive midfeilder to shore up a break, take a foul for the team, or cover a position of a player out of position.