Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread

[JLW]

Another day another person stabbed to death in London!!

 

[LEONARD]

Another day another person stabbed to death in London!!

Such an ongoing human tragedy.

I appreciate this is an incredibly complex issue, but media 'experts', blaming everything, except the actual PERPETRATORS, is annoying.

 

[tsubaki]

Such an ongoing human tragedy.

I appreciate this is an incredibly complex issue, but media 'experts', blaming everything, except the actual PERPETRATORS, is annoying.

It isn't a complex issue though. They (the Government) knew what would happen if they cut the budget by as much as they did, and they did it anyway - despite the 2011 riots, the ongoing problems with terrorism (including four attacks, three of which killed people), a rising population, regular public order incidents and the effect of the cuts elsewhere meaning that police would inherit a lot of the things displaced from mental health facilities, social workers, youth help etc. What this government has done to the Met is incredible - dozens of police stations sold off, thousands of police staff made redundant, Hendon itself turned mostly into flats, every borough has been amalgamated with a neighbour (or neighbours).

The perpetrators of course deserve everything they get when they are caught, but a large number of these killing would not happen if someone got hold of these kids / young men earlier. The police (and the other agencies which have been cut) used to do that.

 

[PhilM]

It isn't a complex issue though. They (the Government) knew what would happen if they cut the budget by as much as they did, and they did it anyway - despite the 2011 riots, the ongoing problems with terrorism (including four attacks, three of which killed people), a rising population, regular public order incidents and the effect of the cuts elsewhere meaning that police would inherit a lot of the things displaced from mental health facilities, social workers, youth help etc. What this government has done to the Met is incredible - dozens of police stations sold off, thousands of police staff made redundant, Hendon itself turned mostly into flats, every borough has been amalgamated with a neighbour (or neighbours).

The perpetrators of course deserve everything they get when they are caught, but a large number of these killing would not happen if someone got hold of these kids / young men earlier. The police (and the other agencies which have been cut) used to do that.

The same could be said about Merpol as it's lost nigh on 1/4 of its budget even after local taxes have reduced the actual central grant reduction from a 31% loss.

South Liverpool is now covered by Admiral St. (Toxteth) or Speke on reduced hours, but you often may get a response from St. Annne St. or Huyton. Madness!

 

[Mr. White]

The perpetrators of course deserve everything they get when they are caught, but a large number of these killing would not happen if someone got hold of these kids / young men earlier. The police (and the other agencies which have been cut) used to do that.

What about the parents?

 

[tsubaki]

What about the parents?

if they shut down loads of police stations, reduce the number of cops on the street and wreck the rest of the criminal justice system then they should also be blamed

 

[jaycee]

It isn't a complex issue though. They (the Government) knew what would happen if they cut the budget by as much as they did, and they did it anyway - despite the 2011 riots, the ongoing problems with terrorism (including four attacks, three of which killed people), a rising population, regular public order incidents and the effect of the cuts elsewhere meaning that police would inherit a lot of the things displaced from mental health facilities, social workers, youth help etc. What this government has done to the Met is incredible - dozens of police stations sold off, thousands of police staff made redundant, Hendon itself turned mostly into flats, every borough has been amalgamated with a neighbour (or neighbours).

The perpetrators of course deserve everything they get when they are caught, but a large number of these killing would not happen if someone got hold of these kids / young men earlier. The police (and the other agencies which have been cut) used to do that.

Now mate you know it can all be solved by a non Muslim mayor

 

[Mr. White]

if they shut down loads of police stations, reduce the number of cops on the street and wreck the rest of the criminal justice system then they should also be blamed

So, the parents have no direct responsibility?

Don't get me wrong, I hate seeing cuts on law and order. I'd happily pay more in tax, if it was spent wisely on improving public safety. But, you can't completely absolve parents of all responsibility when it comes to how their kids are raised.

 

[PhilM]

So, the parents have no direct responsibility?

Don't get me wrong, I hate seeing cuts on law and order. I'd happily pay more in tax, if it was spent wisely on improving public safety. But, you can't completely absolve parents of all responsibility when it comes to how their kids are raised.

If you ask anyone in education, the lack of parental guidance and/or trauma (in the sense of significant events) in the formative years play a huge part.

 

[tsubaki]

So, the parents have no direct responsibility?

Don't get me wrong, I hate seeing cuts on law and order. I'd happily pay more in tax, if it was spent wisely on improving public safety. But, you can't completely absolve parents of all responsibility when it comes to how their kids are raised.

You can't go around saying "and what about the parents" when someone kills someone either though, especially when you know absolutely nothing about the lives of anyone involved in these horrors.

I mean take that 37 year old bloke who was arrested for murdering that pregnant woman. Do you blame his parents for that? (edit) Or the 29 year old bloke?

 

[Mr. White]

You can't go around saying "and what about the parents" when someone kills someone either though, especially when you know absolutely nothing about the lives of anyone involved in these horrors.

I mean take that 37 year old bloke who was arrested for murdering that pregnant woman. Do you blame his parents for that? (edit) Or the 29 year old bloke?

That's why parents are never found guilty of crimes committed by their offspring. The best parents can have problem children, and the worst parents can have wonderful children that excel. But there is a clear trend, linked to the nature and nurture argument.

You can't just blame everything on Tory cuts!

 

[tsubaki]

That's why parents are never found guilty of crimes committed by their offspring. The best parents can have problem children, and the worst parents can have wonderful children that excel. But there is a clear trend, linked to the nature and nurture argument.

You can't just blame everything on Tory cuts!

Well, for a start that is an answer to a question that wasn't posed - you (and I) know nothing about the parenting of the people responsible for this, so you cannot assume that it is a factor in any of these killings.

As for the second bit, you can't - but you can blame them for this, which is well-evidenced, which everyone in London can see and feel for themselves, and which even the two Tory leadership contenders admit.

 

[Mr. White]

Well, for a start that is an answer to a question that wasn't posed - you (and I) know nothing about the parenting of the people responsible for this, so you cannot assume that it is a factor in any of these killings.

As for the second bit, you can't - but you can blame them for this, which is well-evidenced, which everyone in London can see and feel for themselves, and which even the two Tory leadership contenders admit.

If you want facts, here you go....

 

[tsubaki]

If you want facts, here you go....

View attachment 61765

... which is another answer to a question that wasn't asked - though since you mention it, look at what happens to your graph when police strength in London is increased:

A more relevant graph for this discussion is this one:

If you are really trying to pretend that taking nearly 20% out of the budget of the police for a city which has probably grown by a million people since 2010 hasn't had a demonstrable effect in the city, then you are having a laugh.

 

[peteblue]

It isn't a complex issue though. They (the Government) knew what would happen if they cut the budget by as much as they did, and they did it anyway - despite the 2011 riots, the ongoing problems with terrorism (including four attacks, three of which killed people), a rising population, regular public order incidents and the effect of the cuts elsewhere meaning that police would inherit a lot of the things displaced from mental health facilities, social workers, youth help etc. What this government has done to the Met is incredible - dozens of police stations sold off, thousands of police staff made redundant, Hendon itself turned mostly into flats, every borough has been amalgamated with a neighbour (or neighbours).

The perpetrators of course deserve everything they get when they are caught, but a large number of these killing would not happen if someone got hold of these kids / young men earlier. The police (and the other agencies which have been cut) used to do that.

And yet if anyone suggested that these murderers should be hung they would be pilloried. While young men think they can kill and get away with it, and then even if caught get a few years behind bars then it will continue......