EverBlue92
Player Valuation: £8m
Im a public sector lad so naturally Im more Labour however there are some right cretins in the party at present and she's one of the biggest.
Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread
- Thread starter GrandOldTeam
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Im a public sector lad so naturally Im more Labour however there are some right cretins in the party at present and she's one of the biggest.
So because they're black they come from cultural backwaters that are beset with war? Ffs Pete. Firstly a great many of these kids will have been born in Britain. Secondly, even if they were born in Africa, Africa is a fecking enormous continent, and the majority of countries within it aren't in any way war torn. So yes, your sweeping generalisation has more than a hint of Kipling's white man's burden, which was I'm afraid was horribly racist. Maybe if you actually lived, worked and actually knew people within these communities rather than your gammon enclave you'd have a better idea.
My wife works in many of these communities btw, and it is perhaps the macho malaise that we blokes talk about policing and stuff as that's the blokish response to such things, but it's noticeable how often the father is missing from the family for whatever reason. Doing more on that and not slashing the public health budget may be a decent start point rather than focusing on policing alone.
flibbyflob
Player Valuation: £40m
That was about the most sense she has ever made on the show too.
abelard
Player Valuation: £35m
list from april this year of those that had been stabbed/killed , lots of young people on there what a waste of life.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43640475
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43640475
I think it has to be a multi agency approach across the board , there has so much to the problem that needs to be tackled . Otherwise I think you’re just placating the hang em and flog em or the liberal parts of society either way really .
The family unit is statistically an interesting one but I wonder if it’s true or hidden within the stats. Ultimately areas where crime is prevalent the family unit is less common but is it a chicken and an egg thing like I’m you might be able to prove people drinking the odd glass of port live longer or those who travel long haul but it’s not the reason why . You know what I mean ? I’m not saying the family unit being together wouldn’t help I just don’t know how influential it is .
Very true - I got involved a few years ago (through my company) with an organisation called St Louis b-works. They are a charitable organisation based in St louis that run a number of programs for under-privileged kids.
They set up various schemes, one being the build-a-bike scheme, whereby kids attend for six x 2-hour sessions to learn all about road safety, rules of the road, how bikes work and their component parts and over the course of the program they build themselves a bike from parts donated to the scheme by the public. At the end of the course they walk away with a bike but more importantly they get positive adult role-model interraction for the duration of this course.
A lot of the the course leaders are male and that really helps a lot of the kids as 100% of the kids attending the program are from extremely poor backgrounds with no male father figure in the home environment and the only interraction they have with senior males are gang-members on the streets trying to recruit them into a life of crime/gang culture/drugs etc..
The scheme also runs other programs for these kids including build-a-computer scheme wher they learn all about computers, the internet, and they build a computer from donated parts and take that away if they complete the course. Another course they have started to run is book works, where they are go on a journey learning to plan and communicate ideas, improve their literacy and handwriting skills, book research and drawing skills. Finally they write and illustrate their own books. All the while receiving positive adult interraction.
So yeah a massive part of the problem is the home environment of these kids, the lack of positive male role models in their lives, poor parenting and just general poverty and feeling of worthlessness. But given the right support structure and if you catch them young enough, these kids have shown to me that they are 100% capable of turning their lives around.
http://www.bworks.org/bikeworks/
http://www.bworks.org/bookworks/
http://www.bworks.org/byteworks/
Aye, I suppose it depends how patriarchal the community is. A lot of the African folks I know are that way inclined, but I wouldn't want to make sweeping judgements on what is a pretty small sample.
I’m certainly not dismissing it and I think anything that could help would be great I just don’t know it know enough really . The reality is like everything it seems at the minute we could get an idea through research and experience elsewhere what could help but it almost certainly wouldn’t be cutting overall police numbers , cutting funding to various social projects and higher prison time for offenders but you know .
Know, as with so many social issues, the answer is unlikely to be a simple one and will involve multiple factors, as you mention above. If anything, the last few years should have told us that we should beware anyone claiming there are simply answers to complex problems.
Nice piece in the Economist today about this being neither a London-centric problem, or a black-centric problem (indeed, knife crime has gone up more outside of London than inside it)
"Across the country, some children are becoming victims, others perpetrators. On November 3rd a 15-year-old was stabbed in the chest in Swindon. Two days later, an 18-year-old was knifed in the leg outside a school in Bedford. On November 6th two teenagers suspected of stabbing a younger boy in Manchester were arrested. The boy was struck several times in front of other children out for Halloween.
But the media has focused on London, where there have been 119 murders this year, about the same as the number killed in the whole of 2017, excluding terrorist attacks. Four in ten victims were 24 or younger. In the six days from October 31st, there were five fatal stabbings in the capital. The hosts of “Good Morning Britain”, a television programme, berated Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London. “Sort it out, Mr Mayor!” one said.
This narrow focus is partly justified. Stabbings are far more common in London than anywhere else in the country, and not only because it is so much bigger: it sees more violence per person than less populous areas. In 2017-18 it accounted for 22% of all murders and 36% of knife crime in England and Wales, though Londoners make up 15% of the population. Attacks in the capital also appear to be more ferocious than those elsewhere. Its murder count has risen more sharply than the country’s.
Yet the biggest increases in knife crime have been outside London (see chart). Since 2010-11 it has risen by a tenth in the capital, and by a third in the rest of England and Wales. During the same period, knife crime leapt more sharply than the national average in the patches around Sheffield, Leeds and Liverpool. The number of stabbings began to tick up in North Wales, Norfolk and Essex well before they did in London. Jacqueline Sebire, assistant chief constable of Bedfordshire Police, recently dealt with four stabbings in 24 hours. “It’s wrong that people are placing the sole focus on London,” she says.
Some think the capital dominates coverage because of its concentration of journalists and politicians. They are “seeing it more visibly than the trends outside London,” says Harvey Redgrave of Crest Advisory, a consultancy. Mr Khan and Cressida Dick, commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, are well known and so more likely to be held to account than a provincial police chief or politician. Others suspect politics. Tory-supporting newspapers have been quick to criticise Mr Khan, a Labour mayor who will have to fight an election campaign in a little over a year.
The best explanations for the surge are national. Labour blames spending cuts: the number of policemen has fallen by 15% since 2010. Meanwhile new demands on officers, such as a recent run of accusations of decades-old sex abuse, take up their time. Another plausible explanation is a shift in the drugs market. A boom in the supply of crack cocaine has encouraged city gangsters to expand into towns once dominated by small-time dealers. Competition has sparked violent turf wars.
Misdiagnosing the spread of the problem could frustrate attempts to tackle it. “A lot of police forces just want to deal with problems on their own patch,” says Rick Muir of the Police Foundation, a think-tank. “You need to look at it as a national problem.” Mr Khan might be feeling the heat, but responsibility ultimately rests with the Home Office."
I'm sure Pete is capable of making up his own mind though and isn't just blindly parroting what he reads in the Telegraph
"Across the country, some children are becoming victims, others perpetrators. On November 3rd a 15-year-old was stabbed in the chest in Swindon. Two days later, an 18-year-old was knifed in the leg outside a school in Bedford. On November 6th two teenagers suspected of stabbing a younger boy in Manchester were arrested. The boy was struck several times in front of other children out for Halloween.
But the media has focused on London, where there have been 119 murders this year, about the same as the number killed in the whole of 2017, excluding terrorist attacks. Four in ten victims were 24 or younger. In the six days from October 31st, there were five fatal stabbings in the capital. The hosts of “Good Morning Britain”, a television programme, berated Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London. “Sort it out, Mr Mayor!” one said.
This narrow focus is partly justified. Stabbings are far more common in London than anywhere else in the country, and not only because it is so much bigger: it sees more violence per person than less populous areas. In 2017-18 it accounted for 22% of all murders and 36% of knife crime in England and Wales, though Londoners make up 15% of the population. Attacks in the capital also appear to be more ferocious than those elsewhere. Its murder count has risen more sharply than the country’s.
Yet the biggest increases in knife crime have been outside London (see chart). Since 2010-11 it has risen by a tenth in the capital, and by a third in the rest of England and Wales. During the same period, knife crime leapt more sharply than the national average in the patches around Sheffield, Leeds and Liverpool. The number of stabbings began to tick up in North Wales, Norfolk and Essex well before they did in London. Jacqueline Sebire, assistant chief constable of Bedfordshire Police, recently dealt with four stabbings in 24 hours. “It’s wrong that people are placing the sole focus on London,” she says.
Some think the capital dominates coverage because of its concentration of journalists and politicians. They are “seeing it more visibly than the trends outside London,” says Harvey Redgrave of Crest Advisory, a consultancy. Mr Khan and Cressida Dick, commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, are well known and so more likely to be held to account than a provincial police chief or politician. Others suspect politics. Tory-supporting newspapers have been quick to criticise Mr Khan, a Labour mayor who will have to fight an election campaign in a little over a year.
The best explanations for the surge are national. Labour blames spending cuts: the number of policemen has fallen by 15% since 2010. Meanwhile new demands on officers, such as a recent run of accusations of decades-old sex abuse, take up their time. Another plausible explanation is a shift in the drugs market. A boom in the supply of crack cocaine has encouraged city gangsters to expand into towns once dominated by small-time dealers. Competition has sparked violent turf wars.
Misdiagnosing the spread of the problem could frustrate attempts to tackle it. “A lot of police forces just want to deal with problems on their own patch,” says Rick Muir of the Police Foundation, a think-tank. “You need to look at it as a national problem.” Mr Khan might be feeling the heat, but responsibility ultimately rests with the Home Office."
I'm sure Pete is capable of making up his own mind though and isn't just blindly parroting what he reads in the Telegraph
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
My point went completely over your head. Why are most of the victims and perpetrators black ?.....
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I agree, she made a complete Horlick’s of it. But the reason politicians will not shout and scream for stop and search is also for fear of being called a racist. You are right that there is far too much politics in policing, and it’s killing young kids.....
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