Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Noisy noise annoys]

This guy

Congressmen clash over gun laws following latest US school shooting in Nashville, Tennessee

Jamaal Bowman demands some answers about why guns are available to children when he is interrupted by Thomas Massie, whose Christmas card featured a photograph of his family holding rifles.

news.sky.com

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12845307

 

[LinekersLegs]

Think California has tighter gun restrictions that most of the States.

Admittedly don’t live there or watch CNN or anything but most debates I see coming out from America is for tighter controls and not outright bans.

California does have some of the the strictest, helps some but still an awful deathtoll and the laws are under a lot of legal challenges.


Democrats generally in the US are pushing for a re-instatement of the assault weapons ban that expired under Bush ie a restriction on the sale of guns like AR15s that are often used in the most high profile shootings

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750656174/the-u-s-once-had-a-ban-on-assault-weapons-why-did-it-expire

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However these guns are very popular and there are lots of “devil in details” as to how you categorize them legally.

There are also other attempts to control access such as red flag laws, raise in ages allowed to own etc,

 

[LinekersLegs]

I think part of the problem with the debate on guns in America is that the solution is framed (typically by utterly unlikeable up their own arse California yuppies) as a "ban" on guns. We don't have a "ban" on guns in this country, you just need to go through some pretty reasonable checks and have a justification for why you need to own the gun, as well as proving you can store it in a secure place. As we can see, that has been sufficient in Great Britain to prevent a repeat of such a thing as Dunblane. I think if the Americans who want to see this kind of change reframed the argument in this manner, rather than getting on their high horse and belittling rednecks for being working class at every turn, they would have a lot more success pushing for change.

Hi, Californian here.

IIRC there is a ban on certain guns in the UK - the semi automatic AR15 commonly associated with mass shootings in the US I don’t think is available for sale in the UK to civilians unless converted to a bolt action or is the .22 version.

Also under section 5 I think basically all hand guns are restricted to very limited access such as animal slaughter.

Firearms regulation in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Perhaps @PhilM can clarify.

In any case the restrictions in the Uk are far more than any restrictions any US lawmaker has proposed, it is the gun lobby likes to “reframe” the arguments for gun control to a ban on guns.

 

[carolinablue232]

State laws only do so much. We need more common sense legislation at a federal level and that should include hand guns in addition to the “big guns.”

 

[MrPerfectNot]

State laws only do so much. We need more common sense legislation at a federal level and that should include hand guns in addition to the “big guns.”

Yes, we do - but to eat this elephant will take generational change in attitude - so we need to start with the federal legislation and big weapons - and have a Supreme Court that is willing to reconsider what a "well-regulated militia" really means.....

After all, we have laws restricting ownership of tanks and .50 caliber machine guns....

 

[carolinablue232]

Yes, we do - but to eat this elephant will take generational change in attitude - so we need to start with the federal legislation and big weapons - and have a Supreme Court that is willing to reconsider what a "well-regulated militia" really means.....

After all, we have laws restricting ownership of tanks and .50 caliber machine guns....

I say it every time, but the vast majority of gun violence in this country is done with hand guns. They just don’t make the news. Let’s solve the actual issue rather than pretending to do so. That said, you’re probably right in that it will need to be baby steps so something is better than nothing.

 

[MrPerfectNot]

I say it every time, but the vast majority of gun violence in this country is done with hand guns. They just don’t make the news. Let’s solve the actual issue rather than pretending to do so. That said, you’re probably right in that it will need to be baby steps so something is better than nothing.

I fully agree re the actual problem. We just can't get there in one fell swoop.

 

[TN Toffee]

This was yesterday at the State Capitol in Nashville. Some schools even allowed students to skip classes and join the protests.

Predictably, gun nuts and MAGA idiots are comparing it to January 6.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[LinekersLegs]

Armed School Officials and Fatal and Nonfatal Gunshot Injuries During Mass School Shootings

This cross-sectional study examines whether there is an association between having an armed guard at school and the prevalence of deaths and injuries during school shootings and attempted shootings.

jamanetwork.com

Based on theory, multivariate models include the presence of an armed guard and control for region, school type (public, nonpublic), and grade level (high school, elementary, other); location (urban, suburban, rural); use of lockdown drills; if the attack was targeted; total number of weapons brought to the scene; number of shooters; and weapon type. Results are presented as incident rate ratios in Table 2 and show armed guards were not associated with significant reduction in rates of injuries; in fact, controlling for the aforementioned factors of location and school characteristics, the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present (incidence rate ratio, 2.96; 95% CI = 1.43-6.13; P = .003).

 

[IrishBlue2022]

Armed School Officials and Fatal and Nonfatal Gunshot Injuries During Mass School Shootings

This cross-sectional study examines whether there is an association between having an armed guard at school and the prevalence of deaths and injuries during school shootings and attempted shootings.

jamanetwork.com

Based on theory, multivariate models include the presence of an armed guard and control for region, school type (public, nonpublic), and grade level (high school, elementary, other); location (urban, suburban, rural); use of lockdown drills; if the attack was targeted; total number of weapons brought to the scene; number of shooters; and weapon type. Results are presented as incident rate ratios in Table 2 and show armed guards were not associated with significant reduction in rates of injuries; in fact, controlling for the aforementioned factors of location and school characteristics, the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present (incidence rate ratio, 2.96; 95% CI = 1.43-6.13; P = .003).

Crazy that is even a suggestion of a solution to have armed guards at schools. I would assume most school shooters accept that they will probably be killed in the act, so why do people think that having a threat to kill them onsite is part of a solution. Another sticking plaster idea rather than tackling the root causes, starting with sufficient gun control.

I did my university placement with juvenile probation in a small city not too far from Chicago in 2014. I worked out there for 3 months. Probation officers had an office space at the high schools so i was always in and out. All had metal detectors when entering and atleast one designated police officer in the school. The school with the most robust security had just the week before had a student with a gun in one of the corridors.

 

[Wizard]

Crazy that is even a suggestion of a solution to have armed guards at schools. I would assume most school shooters accept that they will probably be killed in the act, so why do people think that having a threat to kill them onsite is part of a solution. Another sticking plaster idea rather than tackling the root causes, starting with sufficient gun control.

I did my university placement with juvenile probation in a small city not too far from Chicago in 2014. I worked out there for 3 months. Probation officers had an office space at the high schools so i was always in and out. All had metal detectors when entering and atleast one designated police officer in the school. The school with the most robust security had just the week before had a student with a gun in one of the corridors.

He doesn’t actually believe it’s a solution. He just has to say something to try and justify not introducing gun control. The only argument they ever seem to have is “more good guys with guns”.

If he actually cared about kids being massacred in schools he would be open to conversations about background checks, registration, safe storage, cool off periods and I don’t know, maybe not letting people have military grade assault rifles.

 

[Rita_Poon]

August 27th 1992

 

[TheBigIguana]

Been waiting for this one as the incident was yesterday evening but yeah, it never really stops.

 

[MrPerfectNot]