Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

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RAFUH said:
It is something in the psyche of many Americans...rugged individualism, but something more than defending yourself which I can't put into words, but maybe a friend did.

My friend and I are ideologically polar opposites in almost every way, but I could not have a better friend. He is a generous, unassuming, quite shy and reserved guy....the sweetest man you could ever meet. I am hesitant to post this as he will surely be ripped to shreds, but will because it lends insight into what many gun owners in the US feel. Please don't make it about him personally as he's not here to defend his thoughts.

"I stand behind you in line at the store with a smile on my face and a gun under my shirt and you are none the wiser, yet you are safer for having me next to you. I won't shoot you. My gun won't pull it's own trigger. It is securely holstered with the trigger covered. It can't just go off. However, rest assured that if a lunatic walks into the grocery store and pulls out a rifle, I will draw my pistol and protect myself and my family and therefore protect you and your family. I may get shot before I can pull the trigger...but, I won't die in a helpless blubbering heap on the floor begging for my life or my child's life. No, if I die it will be in a pile of spent shell casings. I won't be that victim. I choose not to be. As for you, I don't ask you to carry a gun. If you are not comfortable, then please don't. But I would like to keep my right to choose to not be a helpless victim. There is evil in the world and if evil has a gun, I want one too. "

It is this last sentiment about being a victim that I find to be very common in many folks from around my neck of the woods (rural southern/south central US) that I think is often misunderstood or completely missed.
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It's kind of a sad state of affairs though isn't it when you think that at any turn there might be some lunatic with a gun wanting to harm you in some way. I'm sure most (all) fathers/husbands/partners feel exactly the same about protecting their friends and loved ones, but it's got to be a good thing that those guys don't feel the need to own a gun in order to do so?

It seems like a Mexican stand-off at the moment where law-abiding folks demand weapons to protect themselves, yet that same availability of guns makes it much more likely that they need to protect themselves. Not only does this create an insidious situation, but you also have the inevitability that the police have to be even more heavily armed because of what the general public wields.

Where does the line get drawn in the sand that says having more and more guns is a bad thing?
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's kind of a sad state of affairs though isn't it when you think that at any turn there might be some lunatic with a gun wanting to harm you in some way. I'm sure most (all) fathers/husbands/partners feel exactly the same about protecting their friends and loved ones, but it's got to be a good thing that those guys don't feel the need to own a gun in order to do so?

It seems like a Mexican stand-off at the moment where law-abiding folks demand weapons to protect themselves, yet that same availability of guns makes it much more likely that they need to protect themselves. Not only does this create an insidious situation, but you also have the inevitability that the police have to be even more heavily armed because of what the general public wields.

Where does the line get drawn in the sand that says having more and more guns is a bad thing?
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Was only trying to give insight of how a large part of the US population feels.
It is like the US and USSR cold war. Each "side" keeps getting more and bigger weapons until you are only assured of mutual destruction.

As I said, love my friend, also frequently want to smack him up side the head.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's kind of a sad state of affairs though isn't it when you think that at any turn there might be some lunatic with a gun wanting to harm you in some way. I'm sure most (all) fathers/husbands/partners feel exactly the same about protecting their friends and loved ones, but it's got to be a good thing that those guys don't feel the need to own a gun in order to do so?

It seems like a Mexican stand-off at the moment where law-abiding folks demand weapons to protect themselves, yet that same availability of guns makes it much more likely that they need to protect themselves. Not only does this create an insidious situation, but you also have the inevitability that the police have to be even more heavily armed because of what the general public wields.

Where does the line get drawn in the sand that says having more and more guns is a bad thing?
Click to expand...

Sadly, I honestly think it will take a much larger tragedy than what happened in Orlando to even begin moving the needle.

I can't even imagine what it will be, but it would have to be something much larger to change the way of thinking over here.

I mean the fact that this guy in Orlando was a suspected terrorist who was interviewed by the FBI, and still could buy assault rifles tells you everything you need to know about the current state of affairs with regards to guns. You can thank the NRA for this.
 
Thing is, and this sounds really insensitive, but unless someone corrects me, this seems to be confined to their own Country; its not like there are tons of Mericans setting off all over the world. (And before any geo political zealot pipes up, you know exactly what I mean in this context).

So, if they, as a Nation are happy to marry whatever Ammendment it is that allows them to bear arms with the seemingly inevitable consequence of that adherence, then who are we to tell them it is a bit daft?
 
RAFUH said:
It is something in the psyche of many Americans...rugged individualism, but something more than defending yourself which I can't put into words, but maybe a friend did.

My friend and I are ideologically polar opposites in almost every way, but I could not have a better friend. He is a generous, unassuming, quite shy and reserved guy....the sweetest man you could ever meet. I am hesitant to post this as he will surely be ripped to shreds, but will because it lends insight into what many gun owners in the US feel. Please don't make it about him personally as he's not here to defend his thoughts.

"I stand behind you in line at the store with a smile on my face and a gun under my shirt and you are none the wiser, yet you are safer for having me next to you. I won't shoot you. My gun won't pull it's own trigger. It is securely holstered with the trigger covered. It can't just go off. However, rest assured that if a lunatic walks into the grocery store and pulls out a rifle, I will draw my pistol and protect myself and my family and therefore protect you and your family. I may get shot before I can pull the trigger...but, I won't die in a helpless blubbering heap on the floor begging for my life or my child's life. No, if I die it will be in a pile of spent shell casings. I won't be that victim. I choose not to be. As for you, I don't ask you to carry a gun. If you are not comfortable, then please don't. But I would like to keep my right to choose to not be a helpless victim. There is evil in the world and if evil has a gun, I want one too. "

It is this last sentiment about being a victim that I find to be very common in many folks from around my neck of the woods (rural southern/south central US) that I think is often misunderstood or completely missed.
Click to expand...
Agree, had similiar conversations with my gun owning friends.

The bit I find particularly hard to grasp is that none of them seem to consider that they (or their loved ones with access to the guns) could be the "bad guys" as it were. That a messy divorce or sacking might send them out of their minds with rage or that they might have a medical situation that has the same result.

And also the supreme selfconfidence that they will be able to correctly identify the shooter and accurately target them, or that they will have control of the surrounding circumstances such as their act of pulling out the gun won't cause nearby people to flee into the line of fire in panic. Or that they won't be groggy from sleep/overindulgence and mistake a relative creeping round the house so as not to wake up the household for an intruder. I guess it is just a different slant on the "everyone else is s bad driver but I'm a good one" belief.
 
wm02 said:
It's been 20+ years since I've been up there. Polling my kids on whale watch v. a Red Sox game.
Click to expand...

Tough call, Fenway is a great sporting venue, reminded me in atmosphere of Goodison.

If you go to Fenway book a table at Island Creek Oyster bar, plenty of sea food to stare at and eat there :)
 
RAFUH said:
I agree with you. Was only trying to give insight of how a large part of the US population feels.
It is like the US and USSR cold war. Each "side" keeps getting more and bigger weapons until you are only assured of mutual destruction.

As I said, love my friend, also frequently want to smack him up side the head.
Click to expand...

And it's much appreciated. Please don't think I was using sad in the sense that the guy is some kind of loser, that wasn't how it was meant so much as genuine sadness that someone needs a gun to feel safe in life.
 
ilikecheese said:
Sadly, I honestly think it will take a much larger tragedy than what happened in Orlando to even begin moving the needle.

I can't even imagine what it will be, but it would have to be something much larger to change the way of thinking over here.

I mean the fact that this guy in Orlando was a suspected terrorist who was interviewed by the FBI, and still could buy assault rifles tells you everything you need to know about the current state of affairs with regards to guns. You can thank the NRA for this.
Click to expand...
I'll tell you what it will be - famous people. Only when someone shoots up an NFL match or a Hollywood premiere will anyone start to remotely take notice.
 
ilikecheese said:
Sadly, I honestly think it will take a much larger tragedy than what happened in Orlando to even begin moving the needle.

I can't even imagine what it will be, but it would have to be something much larger to change the way of thinking over here.

I mean the fact that this guy in Orlando was a suspected terrorist who was interviewed by the FBI, and still could buy assault rifles tells you everything you need to know about the current state of affairs with regards to guns. You can thank the NRA for this.
Click to expand...

If Sandy Hook doesn't move the needle, I can't make any guesses what will
 
The Cowboy said:
I'll tell you what it will be - famous people. Only when someone shoots up an NFL match or a Hollywood premiere will anyone start to remotely take notice.
Click to expand...

Doubt it. For NFL they would just believe games shouldn't be gun free zones...ie the good guy with a gun theory. And as Hollywood is generally seen as far left, I can't see it having an effect.

Honestly, if someone gunning down a few classrooms full of 5 and 6 year olds didn't do it, I am not sure anything can.
 
RAFUH said:
It is something in the psyche of many Americans...rugged individualism, but something more than defending yourself which I can't put into words, but maybe a friend did.

My friend and I are ideologically polar opposites in almost every way, but I could not have a better friend. He is a generous, unassuming, quite shy and reserved guy....the sweetest man you could ever meet. I am hesitant to post this as he will surely be ripped to shreds, but will because it lends insight into what many gun owners in the US feel. Please don't make it about him personally as he's not here to defend his thoughts.

"I stand behind you in line at the store with a smile on my face and a gun under my shirt and you are none the wiser, yet you are safer for having me next to you. I won't shoot you. My gun won't pull it's own trigger. It is securely holstered with the trigger covered. It can't just go off. However, rest assured that if a lunatic walks into the grocery store and pulls out a rifle, I will draw my pistol and protect myself and my family and therefore protect you and your family. I may get shot before I can pull the trigger...but, I won't die in a helpless blubbering heap on the floor begging for my life or my child's life. No, if I die it will be in a pile of spent shell casings. I won't be that victim. I choose not to be. As for you, I don't ask you to carry a gun. If you are not comfortable, then please don't. But I would like to keep my right to choose to not be a helpless victim. There is evil in the world and if evil has a gun, I want one too. "

It is this last sentiment about being a victim that I find to be very common in many folks from around my neck of the woods (rural southern/south central US) that I think is often misunderstood or completely missed.
Click to expand...

I get this sentiment, but is it stopping mass shootings? Or should gays and kindergartners be packing at the schools and clubs?
 
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