Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

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emir said:
To blame those 40,000 deaths on firearms is a bit asinine, don't you think? 61% of those deaths are actually suicides. So why don't we collectively approach this figure in a systematic way? If more people are committing suicide, what is going wrong with our mental health care? Blaming guns for this is such a cop-out and we will never be able to get to the root of the issue. If someone wanted to commit suicide, they'll just turn the ignition of their car on in an enclosed garage.

And no, I'm not accepting of any deaths at all. But as a society, we must understand that everything comes with a cost.
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Is anything worth the cost of a mass shooting in schools, malls etc.?
 
emir said:
But your second point? You have no real evidence that removing guns would somehow magically lower homicide rates. It's all huge speculation without any evidence. Guns are not the reason why murders are happening. Murders are happening because of the thought process of these criminal minds.
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No. Tons of evidence suggest that homicide rates are lower in countries with strict gun control. Japan has very strict gun control. There is no reason to believe that the USA has more psychopathic murderers per capita than any other country, but the USA does have more access to guns than those countries.

1616601568139.webp
 
emir said:
To blame those 40,000 deaths on firearms is a bit asinine, don't you think? 61% of those deaths are actually suicides. So why don't we collectively approach this figure in a systematic way? If more people are committing suicide, what is going wrong with our mental health care? Blaming guns for this is such a cop-out and we will never be able to get to the root of the issue. If someone wanted to commit suicide, they'll just turn the ignition of their car on in an enclosed garage.

And no, I'm not accepting of any deaths at all. But as a society, we must understand that everything comes with a cost.
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You are quite adept at creating strawmen.
 
emir said:
Plus, there's not much evidence that "gun control" works. Illinois/Chicago has very strict gun-control yet Chicago has one of the highest rates of gun homicides.
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No. Homicides in Chicago are high but that's because it's easy to buy a gun elsewhere. And homicide are elevated in certain cities with gang violence, which only speaks to states better controlling access to guns, and not facilitating access to guns.

1616602056843.webpSE of Chicago into Gary Indiana and buying a gun within 10 minutes. Plus,
 
Its a vicious circle tbh, if I lived in a bit of a dodgy neighbourhood where literally everyone owns a gun id sure as hell own a gun as well... sod being the only chump in town with no gun.

Of course id prefer it if no one had guns but that's never going to happen is it
 
emir said:
I fully support a tougher background check regime for guns, where we are able to ensure that guns actually end up going to the hands of law-abiding citizens rather than the mentally deranged or criminals. So yeah, I'm with you on this and there should be more of a stringent monitoring system.

But your second point? You have no real evidence that removing guns would somehow magically lower homicide rates. It's all huge speculation without any evidence. Guns are not the reason why murders are happening. Murders are happening because of the thought process of these criminal minds.
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The rest of the civilised world not enough evidence for you?

Your country is screwed my friend.
 
emir said:
To blame those 40,000 deaths on firearms is a bit asinine, don't you think? 61% of those deaths are actually suicides. So why don't we collectively approach this figure in a systematic way? If more people are committing suicide, what is going wrong with our mental health care? Blaming guns for this is such a cop-out and we will never be able to get to the root of the issue. If someone wanted to commit suicide, they'll just turn the ignition of their car on in an enclosed garage.

And no, I'm not accepting of any deaths at all. But as a society, we must understand that everything comes with a cost.
Click to expand...
There is substantial evidence that a lot of people won’t choose to commit suicide another way if blocked from their preferred route. Method does matter in of itself (the guy who wanted to jump offf the Golden Gate bridge but didn’t want to get run over for instance https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92319314) and often the intention is transient and the result of a very dark period which can swiftly pass. Even if there is 100% substitution of intent that still would not equate to 100% success, as you yourself pointed out guns are a very easy and efficient method of taking a life.

In the UK when ovens were converted from coal gas to natural gas with far less carbon monoxide there was a marked reduction in overall suicide rates

The British Gas Suicide Story and Its Criminological Implications on JSTOR

Between 1963 and 1975 the annual number of suicides in England and Wales showed a sudden, unexpected decline from 5,714 to 3,693 at a time when suicide continue...
www.jstor.org www.jstor.org

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Suicide prevention through means restriction: assessing the risk of substitution. A critical review and synthesis - PubMed

The effectiveness of restricting access to certain means of committing suicide has been demonstrated, at least as regards toxic domestic gas, firearms, drugs and bridges. At the individual level, studies tend to indicate that many persons have a preference for a given means, which would limit...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The effectiveness of restricting access to certain means of committing suicide has been demonstrated, at least as regards toxic domestic gas, firearms, drugs and bridges. At the individual level, studies tend to indicate that many persons have a preference for a given means, which would limit the possibility of substitution or displacement towards another method. Similarly, the fact that suicidal crisis are very often short-lived (and, what is more, influenced by ambivalence or impulsiveness) suggests that an individual with restricted access to a given means would not put off his plans to later or turn to alternative methods. This has been more difficult to demonstrate scientifically in population studies. Nevertheless, it appears that, should such a shift occur towards other means, it would be put into effect only in part and over a longer term.
 
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