Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[TN Toffee]

what's the definition of the term?

A mass shooting is an incident involving multiple victims of gun violence. There is no widely accepted definition of the term mass shooting. The United States' FBI defines a "mass murder" as "four or more murdered during an event with no "cooling-off period" between the murders." Based on this, it is generally agreed that a mass shooting is whenever four or more people are shot (injured or killed), not including the shooters.

 

[Blues Harp]

Cant remember but it isnt some bloke shooting dead 1-2 people.

Whilst still bad the whole gun debate is largely centred on mass shootings like Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Fort Hood, Las Vegas etc.

All committed in the age of social media where the shooters are given instant recognition and fame.

The media over there gives these nutters exactly what they want.

Its the Media's fault is it? Jesus fecking wept lad....bet you'd love relaxed gun control over here wouldn't you?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Its the Media's fault is it? Jesus fecking wept lad....bet you'd love relaxed gun control over here wouldn't you?

No but I don't agree with a ban on guns either. My neighbour shoots them as does a relative and I couldn't care less.

USA has a massive gun problem but blaming the 2nd amendment on that and nothing else is like blaming all of evertons problems on the midfield when you have a crap GK, wide players who dont score and a RB who's past it...

 

[Ruairi77]

Cant remember but it isnt some bloke shooting dead 1-2 people.

Whilst still bad the whole gun debate is largely centred on mass shootings like Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Fort Hood, Las Vegas etc.

All committed in the age of social media where the shooters are given instant recognition and fame.

The media over there gives these nutters exactly what they want.

Some say it's an incident where 2 or more people get shot but it has no clear definition.
Any nutter would get lots of coverage, just look at Dunblane, it got wall to wall coverage at the time.
I'm not exonerating the media but to make an argument that the main problem is the coverage media give shooters is short sighted.

The gun debate is centered around gun shows, registered weapons, banning semi automatic assault rifles like the AR15.
The gun debate revolves around money, lobbyists, and politicians.
One example is that at the moment it is illegal to spend federal dollars researching gun violence.

 

[Ruairi77]

No but I don't agree with a ban on guns either. My neighbour shoots them as does a relative and I couldn't care less.

USA has a massive gun problem but blaming the 2nd amendment on that and nothing else is like blaming all of evertons problems on the midfield when you have a crap GK, wide players who dont score and a RB who's past it...

who's blaming the 2A and nothing else?

 

[Prevenger17]

No but I don't agree with a ban on guns either.

Nobody thinks a complete gun ban is feasible or would even work. But trying to figure out how to solve gun crime without addressing the bajillion guns freely circulating in your country is a bit dumb too no?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Nobody thinks a complete gun ban is feasible or would even work. But trying to figure out how to solve gun crime without addressing the bajillion guns freely circulating in your country is a bit dumb too no?

Its completely stupid and they pay a high price for it.

But like most things in life if one thing is changed society doesnt know when to stop and I think that plays into the NRA's hands in fear mongering gun owners that "first they do this then the next..."

Our system is well worked but I dont agree with the handgun ban - if someone wants to shoot up a Morrisons doesn't matter if they have a handgun or shotgun they'll still do it - for me if you reduce magazine capacity and have proper laws in place like the UK has then gun ownership would be a much safer practice/hobby in the US.

 

[Ruairi77]

Its completely stupid and they pay a high price for it.

But like most things in life if one thing is changed society doesnt know when to stop and I think that plays into the NRA's hands in fear mongering gun owners that "first they do this then the next..."

Our system is well worked but I dont agree with the handgun ban - if someone wants to shoot up a Morrisons doesn't matter if they have a handgun or shotgun they'll still do it - for me if you reduce magazine capacity and have proper laws in place like the UK has then gun ownership would be a much safer practice/hobby in the US.

Here, this is a large part of what's wrong with gun ownership here.

 

[TN Toffee]

Also worth mentioning for folks in the UK who might not really realize, but the culture surrounding mental health, and the acceptability of seeking help for problems relating to it (particularly for men and boys) is VASTLY different here in The States. I’ve noticed some ads on TV since COVID started encouraging people to seek out help if they feel they need it, but that’s the first time I’ve ever seen anything remotely like that in my life. It’s one cultural difference that always has stood out to me every time I’ve been to the UK. The thought that a sports message board in the US would have a thread on its main page like GOT does dedicated to mental health is inconceivable. Having so many people walking around with undiagnosed/unaddressed mental health issues who also have almost unchecked access to guns is a big part of the problem.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Here, this is a large part of what's wrong with gun ownership here.

I don't disagree with you mate - its the wild west in the US - I was just arguing the media & laws themselves are just as much to blame as gun ownership in itself.

I dont personally see the appeal in it but I get why some would especially if you live out in the sticks.

 

[Ruairi77]

I don't disagree with you mate - its the wild west in the US - I was just arguing the media & laws themselves are just as much to blame as gun ownership in itself.

I dont personally see the appeal in it but I get why some would especially if you live out in the sticks.

I guess I'm just confused by your argument. Gun ownership is dictated by the laws. The laws are written by politicians who are in the pocket of the gun manufacturers. The lobbyists have made it a partizan political issue. Sure, the media is partly to blame but that's kinda like blaming the video game industry for glorifying it. Both are true but neiter are the core problem.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I guess I'm just confused by your argument. Gun ownership is dictated by the laws. The laws are written by politicians who are in the pocket of the gun manufacturers. The lobbyists have made it a partizan political issue. Sure, the media is partly to blame but that's kinda like blaming the video game industry for glorifying it. Both are true but neiter are the core problem.

I think lax gun laws is the problem in gun problems in general over there - but the US media and their obsession with turning killers into celebs has created the increase in mass murder / random massacres.

As the old saying goes there isn't a price some wouldn't pay for 15 minutes of fame

 

[TN Toffee]

I guess I'm just confused by your argument. Gun ownership is dictated by the laws. The laws are written by politicians who are in the pocket of the gun manufacturers. The lobbyists have made it a partizan political issue. Sure, the media is partly to blame but that's kinda like blaming the video game industry for glorifying it. Both are true but neiter are the core problem.

Absolutely true. He may just be coming at it from the angle of “meaningful gun control is never going to be possible in America”, so what other things can we change to help manage the problem? Not allowing these shooters to live in infamy through massive media coverage might do some good, but ultimately there is never going to be any substitute for passing and strictly enforcing laws that make it difficult for these people to get their hands on firearms.

 

[Ruairi77]

I think lax gun laws is the problem in gun problems in general over there - but the US media and their obsession with turning killers into celebs has created the increase in mass murder / random massacres.

As the old saying goes there isn't a price some wouldn't pay for 15 minutes of fame

I don't think that's an accurate reflection of what's happening here.
The only recent killer who's name I can think of is Dylan Roof. He achieved infamy, not because he wanted 5 mins of fame but because he was a white supremacist who committed an absolutely terrible act because of what he believed in, much like the Tsarnaif (sp?) brothers and the boston bombing.
But I don't think anyone could tell you the name of the vegas shooter without googling it. I cant even recall the name of the newtown shooter.
I think the media do go over the top with their coverage of mass shootings but they definitely make an effort not to glorify the shooter, especially if it's clear they were out to atain infamy like Columbine.

 

[TN Toffee]

I don't think that's an accurate reflection of what's happening here.
The only recent killer who's name I can think of is Dylan Roof. He achieved infamy, not because he wanted 5 mins of fame but because he was a white supremacist who committed an absolutely terrible act because of what he believed in, much like the Tsarnaif (sp?) brothers and the boston bombing.
But I don't think anyone could tell you the name of the vegas shooter without googling it. I cant even recall the name of the newtown shooter.
I think the media do go over the top with their coverage of mass shootings but they definitely make an effort not to glorify the shooter, especially if it's clear they were out to atain infamy like Columbine.

Good point. Looking back over some of the shootings, the names of all the shooters rang a bell once I read them, but the two guys from Columbine were the only two I definitely could have named off the top of my head. The mass school shooting was a pretty rare phenomenon in 1998, so the media might not have known how best to handle things, but those two got EXACTLY what they were after.