Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Ruairi77]

Also worth mentioning for folks in the UK who might not really realize, but the culture surrounding mental health, and the acceptability of seeking help for problems relating to it (particularly for men and boys) is VASTLY different here in The States. I’ve noticed some ads on TV since COVID started encouraging people to seek out help if they feel they need it, but that’s the first time I’ve ever seen anything remotely like that in my life. It’s one cultural difference that always has stood out to me every time I’ve been to the UK. The thought that a sports message board in the US would have a thread on its main page like GOT does dedicated to mental health is inconceivable. Having so many people walking around with undiagnosed/unaddressed mental health issues who also have almost unchecked access to guns is a big part of the problem.

this is a great point.
I also think there is a rush to medicate when someone does need help.
It's a case of 'here, take these and see me in 6 months'.
My insurance doesn't cover therapy or counseling, not many people have access to therapy.
This country is awash with prescription psych meds with no structure in place to monitor their use.
So even when we do deal with mental issues, chances are we're not dealing with it correctly.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I don't think that's an accurate reflection of what's happening here.
The only recent killer who's name I can think of is Dylan Roof. He achieved infamy, not because he wanted 5 mins of fame but because he was a white supremacist who committed an absolutely terrible act because of what he believed in, much like the Tsarnaif (sp?) brothers and the boston bombing.
But I don't think anyone could tell you the name of the vegas shooter without googling it. I cant even recall the name of the newtown shooter.
I think the media do go over the top with their coverage of mass shootings but they definitely make an effort not to glorify the shooter, especially if it's clear they were out to atain infamy like Columbine.

The shooter at Virginia Tech referenced the columbine killers as "martyrs"

The Sandy Hook shooter was a member of some dodgy online forum which referenced different shootings "kill counts"

The Vegas shooter whilst motive was unclear was rumoured to want to have wanted to kill more innocents than any shooting that has gone before.

If you dont believe the media reporting of these incidents doesn't have real influence then I dont know what to say.

 

[Ruairi77]

The shooter at Virginia Tech referenced the columbine killers as "martyrs"

The Sandy Hook shooter was a member of some dodgy online forum which referenced different shootings "kill counts"

The Vegas shooter whilst motive was unclear was rumoured to want to have wanted to kill more innocents than any shooting that has gone before.

If you dont believe the media reporting of these incidents doesn't have real influence then I dont know what to say.

Yea, sandy hook and Vegas are the two i mentioned, you don't know their names, hardly the stuff of celebrity. I'm all for blaming the press for the state of some aspects of this country but in fairness, they have to cover news stories like sandy hook and vegas. The names and motives of either shooter were not widely reported and are not known to the general public.

If you want to blame the press for something with regard to gun violence, blame them for not holding the politicians accountable. Blame them for not reporting the dangerous rise of the NRA and politicizing gun ownership, blame them for not doing enough to promote gun safety for fear of incurring the wrath of the gun lobby and losing advertising bucks, but, recently, they havent been turning shooters into celebrities.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It is also worth noting that away from the mass shootings are still thousands of gun deaths that can't be put down to "media glorification" or whatever.

 

[Ruairi77]

It is also worth noting that away from the mass shootings are still thousands of gun deaths that can't be put down to "media glorification" or whatever.

Yup, these events make up a tiny fraction of gun deaths in the US.
I dunno what the stats are but I remember reading an article about the amount of gun related suicides there are. Again, looking at the poor mental health set up here.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Yup, these events make up a tiny fraction of gun deaths in the US.
I dunno what the stats are but I remember reading an article about the amount of gun related suicides there are. Again, looking at the poor mental health set up here.

Yes and the mental health situation is poor no doubt, but access to firearms being unchecked is not a positive thing for the suicide rate either. It can be both.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Yea, sandy hook and Vegas are the two i mentioned, you don't know their names, hardly the stuff of celebrity. I'm all for blaming the press for the state of some aspects of this country but in fairness, they have to cover news stories like sandy hook and vegas. The names and motives of either shooter were not widely reported and are not known to the general public.

If you want to blame the press for something with regard to gun violence, blame them for not holding the politicians accountable. Blame them for not reporting the dangerous rise of the NRA and politicizing gun ownership, blame them for not doing enough to promote gun safety for fear of incurring the wrath of the gun lobby and losing advertising bucks, but, recently, they havent been turning shooters into celebrities.

We all know the fault of the left/right and NRA - but if the US media didnt turn killers into celebrities (see Ted Bundy, Columbine shooters etc) you wouldnt see as many of these large scale incidents.

Its akin to the Roman Gladiators willing to die just for the roar of the crowd and recogniton of the emperor.

 

[Tir Eoghain Blue]

Really enjoying reading the different viewpoints here. I am actually a registered gun owner myself. However everything is registered properly, I store everything in a safe and seperate the ammo from the firearms. I don’t have anything in reach of the young ones. I also qualify frequently and still maintain a healthy respect where safety comes first.

However it is crazy how many guns are out here. I liked a lot of Ruari’s suggestions. I still support police officers in the schools at this time. No easy answers lads. It’s like supporting Everton. You support them no matter what no matter the disappointment lol.

 

[Ruairi77]

We all know the fault of the left/right and NRA - but if the US media didnt turn killers into celebrities (see Ted Bundy, Columbine shooters etc) you wouldnt see as many of these large scale incidents.

Its akin to the Roman Gladiators willing to die just for the roar of the crowd and recogniton of the emperor.

what?? that was 40 and 20 years ago. Did Bundy even shoot his victims?
as for the roman analogy, wha??

 

[ForeverBlue92]

what?? that was 40 and 20 years ago. Did Bundy even shoot his victims?
as for the roman analogy, wha??

So you dont honestly believe the estimated 20+ shootings around the world that referenced the columbine killers as "inspiration" for their own murders would have still happened if the media hadn't given said shooters such infamy? Pull the other one mate.

The reference is that death is a price some people are prepared to pay for fame / attention - some people commit suicide for attention / to hurt someone, some shoot up a school, some entered a Coliseum for the roar of a crowd.

 

[Ruairi77]

Really enjoying reading the different viewpoints here. I am actually a registered gun owner myself. However everything is registered properly, I store everything in a safe and seperate the ammo from the firearms. I don’t have anything in reach of the young ones. I also qualify frequently and still maintain a healthy respect where safety comes first.

However it is crazy how many guns are out here. I liked a lot of Ruari’s suggestions. I still support police officers in the schools at this time. No easy answers lads. It’s like supporting Everton. You support them no matter what no matter the disappointment lol.

When I moved here first, I couldn't see why anyone should own a gun.
I've mellowed on that and have no problem with reasonable responsible gun owners who are open to legal changes to keep everyone safe.
We have fairly tight laws in Mass and fairly low stats. Problem is it's easy to get illegal guns in New Hampshire, 20 mins away.

 

[Ruairi77]

So you dont honestly believe the estimated 20+ shootings around the world that referenced the columbine killers as "inspiration" for their own murders would have still happened if the media hadn't given said shooters such infamy? Pull the other one mate.

The reference is that death is a price some people are prepared to pay for fame / attention - some people commit suicide for attention / to hurt someone, some shoot up a school, some entered a Coliseum for the roar of a crowd.

OK, one more time, Columbine was 21 years ago. It was handled very poorly by the press as it was not something there was much precedent for. I'm sure the actions of the columbine killers led to many more killings and yes, the media had a part to play in that, but mass shootings are reported very differently now and have been since Columbine. The press learned from columbine that their coverage of the killers was oxygen to a fire.
This is why the names and motives of the Newtown and Vegas shooters are not common knowlege.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

OK, one more time, Columbine was 21 years ago. It was handled very poorly by the press as it was not something there was much precedent for. I'm sure the actions of the columbine killers led to many more killings and yes, the media had a part to play in that, but mass shootings are reported very differently now and have been since Columbine. The press learned from columbine that their coverage of the killers was oxygen to a fire.
This is why the names and motives of the Newtown and Vegas shooters are not common knowlege.

Sandy Hook had a documentary confirming everything that the shooter was planning and why - one of which again referenced previous "high profile" shootings.

Had the Vegas shooter left a manifesto behind you would bet the likes of Fox and CNN would have been all over that aswell to milk the cow.

No one is arguing the laws themselves are the main problem - but the crass media never get pulled up for their big part they play in these atrocities.

 

[Ruairi77]

Sandy Hook had a documentary confirming everything that the shooter was planning and why - one of which again referenced previous "high profile" shootings.

Had the Vegas shooter left a manifesto behind you would bet the likes of Fox and CNN would have been all over that aswell to milk the cow.

No one is arguing the laws themselves are the main problem - but the crass media never get pulled up for their big part they play in these atrocities.

right, and that's the same the world over. There have been countless documentaries on Dunblane or Port Arthur but the UK or Australia don't have the same problem the US does.
So, the laws are the problem. The press reaction is a symptom.

 

[BlueTX]

Sandy Hook had a documentary confirming everything that the shooter was planning and why - one of which again referenced previous "high profile" shootings.

Had the Vegas shooter left a manifesto behind you would bet the likes of Fox and CNN would have been all over that aswell to milk the cow.

No one is arguing the laws themselves are the main problem - but the crass media never get pulled up for their big part they play in these atrocities.

I'm sure you remember the OKC Federal Building bombing and I'd guess you remember the name of the fella who drove the truck. Nonstop media coverage at the time, during his trial and even leading up to his execution. Loads of white nationalist nutters in this country revere him to this day.

Twenty-five years later, why no copycat bombings using mass quantities of ammonium nitrate in the US since that time?