Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

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Walken said:
ex-marine, it's almost as if killing people for a living is deeply damaging and pretty bad for you, not that those profiting will bat an eyelid as they glorify war and the armed forces endlessly
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zzr45 said:
Nah, I’m sorry but that’s elementary logic. I know plenty of lads, including family, who have served in the army who have come out and lived rich fulfilling lives even after being posted to hotspots around the world, including a few that aren’t common knowledge. I have no doubt PTSD is a factor, but there’s a underlying issue there. It’s ultimately tragic that someone that ill can get their hands in weapons and do this.
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Completely agree with what @Walken said.

Your logic is like saying “not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, so smoking isn’t bad for you.
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
Completely agree with what @Walken said.

Your logic is like saying “not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, so smoking isn’t bad for you.
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Nah. I’m sorry the way I read it was that it’s creating psycho after psycho. It isn’t. It’s almost as bad as tarnishing an entire religion based on the actions of some of its members.
 
zzr45 said:
Nah. I’m sorry the way I read it was that it’s creating psycho after psycho. It isn’t. It’s almost as bad as tarnishing an entire religion based on the actions of some of its members.
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That's not what he said though. He said killing people (and/or being trained to do so) for a living isn't good for you (presumably in a psychological sense). That's pretty hard to argue with.

Does that mean everyone who sees active service will go off the deep end? No, obviously not, just like not every person who smokes will contract lung cancer. Doesn't mean it's good for you though.

And it's completely different to the religion side of things. No one is saying "all service members are violent sociopaths". It's more the equivalent of saying "organised religion isn't good for humanity" - which, the overwhelming weight of evidence says it isn't, to be fair.
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
That's not what he said though. He said killing people (and/or being trained to do so) for a living isn't good for you (presumably in a psychological sense). That's pretty hard to argue with.

Does that mean everyone who sees active service will go off the deep end? No, obviously not, just like not every person who smokes will contract lung cancer. Doesn't mean it's good for you though.

And it's completely different to the religion side of things. No one is saying "all service members are violent sociopaths". It's more the equivalent of saying "organised religion isn't good for humanity" - which, the overwhelming weight of evidence says it isn't, to be fair.
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Personally, I feel that to some extent both points @Walken and @zzr45 have valid and perhaps a middle, common ground is where the discussion should lie.

Without doubt, being in the forces (and particularly infantry) has an impact on you psychologically: some I'd say are positive, yet lots can are potentially negative.

The negative effects of wartime service deserves a threat of its own, but I'm sure we can all realise lowered thresholds for violence, radicalised views and PTSD etc.

Therefore, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to suggest that the impact of his service may have played a part in this catastrophe. However, did it cause it?

Is it in fact the main issue we should be addressing? For me, it isn't. Like @zzr45 said, there's many, many ex-forces who are able to live relatively normal lives.

The impact their service will not be to an extent where it would induce such a terrible incident. The overall firearm mentality in the US and ease of procurement...

... well, I would suggest that these factors are much more telling in the countless massacres occurring in the US, alongside the spiralling death rate due to firearms.

Unfortunately, the most galling part of this monstrous cycle is that nothing is ever done apart from the same ol' rhetoric from both sides - the NRA being horrid.
 
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PhilM said:
Personally, I feel that to some extent both points @Walken and @zzr45 have valid and perhaps a middle, common ground is where the discussion should lie.

Without doubt, being in the forces (and particularly infantry) has an impact on you psychologically: some I'd say are positive, yet lots can are potentially negative.

The negative effects of wartime service deserves a threat of its own, but I'm sure we can all realise lowered thresholds for violence, radicalised views and PTSD etc.

Therefore, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to suggest that the impact of his service may have played a part in this catastrophe. However, did it cause it?

Is it in fact the main issue we should be addressing? For me, it isn't. Like @zzr45 said, there's many, many ex-forces who are able to live relatively normal lives.

The impact their service will not be to an extent where it would induce such a terrible incident. The overall firearm mentality in the US and ease of procurement...

... well, I would suggest that these factors are much more telling in the countless massacres occurring in the US, alongside the spiralling death rate due to firearms.

Unfortunately, the most galling part of this monstrous cycle is that nothing is ever done apart from the same ol' rhetoric from both sides - the NRA being horrid.
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Oh I definitely 100% agree with the gun issues - didn't for a moment mean that access to guns wasn't the largest cause - don't think @Walken meant that either. Gun control should have been implemented long, long ago. However there should also be far greater access to mental health care for veterans to help them deal with the traumatic experiences they've been through. Will all veterans go out and shoot someone? No of course not, but look at other things like the rates of domestic violence among veterans who've seen active service being 3x higher than among civilian populations.

Whether it was the overriding cause of this one incident or not, killing people and/or being trained to do so, isn't good for you.
 
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Are you still shooting each other advocating that more guns are the answer, America?

Only 18 dead from 6 shootings this month.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

November 7, 2018
California,Thousand Oaks
99 Rolling Oaks Dr
Dead 13 Injured 2
November 3, 2018
New York, Watertown
136 Franklin St
Dead 0 Injured 5
November 2, 2018
California, Long Beach (North Long Beach)
5800 block of Brayton Ave
Dead 0 Injured 4
November 2, 2018
Florida, Tallahassee
1950 Thomasville Rd
Dead 3 Injured 5
November 1, 2018
Missouri, Springfield
906 E Locust St
Dead 2 Injured 2
November 1, 2018
Minnesota Minneapolis
3400 block of Girard Ave
Dead 0 Injured 5
 
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