Current Affairs The 2020 United States Presidential Election

[sdk]

I’ll preface this by saying that I mean no disrespect to any UK, or even non-southern US posters. That said, you may think you understand how much of an issue deep seeded, generational racism is in this part of the world. Until you’ve really been immersed in it, YOU. DON’T. KNOW.

It varies enough from place to place in the United States that I'm often surprised by the baldness of racist incidents in some parts of the country even though I've spent my life in not-really-so-groovy Northern California and no-black-person's-idea-of-a-racially-enlightened-city Boston. I can't imagine what it looks like from another country altogether.

Because I don't think people go out and vote a certain way due to racism. Or those that do are a vanishingly small minority. I think people go out and vote for something that tangibly benefits themselves rather than against something.

Is racism in the US real and, well, huge? Of course it is. You'd have to be a simpleton not to realise that. But I don't think you can do much by just saying to people "stop being racist eh?" - you have to tackle the underpinning causes of it.

Here's a simple, undeniable fact - it might feel simplistic, but it's just simply true; if racism was the single biggest, massive, underpinning electoral issue and the reason a load of people vote Republican, Obama never wins the presidency. Sorry but he just doesn't. But he did, because he was simply trusted more on key issues that people cared about more than his skin colour.

For me, it really is all about living standards and class divide. The wealthy Trump support just care about tax breaks, like any Republican - the other stuff with him is all secondary. The poor Trump support simply care about their own lives. There's a subset of racists who'll vote for him, of course there is, but their numbers as a determining factor being that high? Sorry, just don't buy it, same as I don't buy "everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist" - they're simply not; they just voted the same way as the racists.

But neither race nor economic opportunity is ever a sole determinant; they wax and wane (along with other social and cultural concerns) as influences in response to historical contingency. (And obviously not just with whites. Trump's improved standing among blacks and Latinos doesn't indicate that most of such voters don't think he's racist, just that they can be willing to countenance a president's personal bigotry if they're able to pursue other interests thereby.)

Obama's a charismatic and capable man of mixed racial background whose outward manner in speech and comportment is more "educated cosmopolitan culture" than "black culture," and his campaign occurred in the midst of national emergency as the economy circled the drain. His main primary opponent was Hillary Clinton (I'm sure you've heard of her) and though his general election opponent, John McCain, was a pretty popular figure among a lot of Dems as well as Republicans, I don't think any Republican was going to win the presidency in 2008 in the wake of the disastrousness of the Bush administration. Though explicit racists probably didn't vote for Obama, I'm not surprised that lots of people with less heat to their prejudice were willing to give him a go.

 

[Tubey]

No, it's not subjective. You thinking its subjective is the problem. Please, explain to me, how can Democrats improve the lives of people when they are not in power to be able to make any of those life changes? The people you are championing that we all need to "improve" don't vote for Democrats; they vote for Republicans. Republicans are most likel going to keep the Senate so that means that any changes the Democratic House and Democratic President wants to make has to go through the Senate where there are, at latest count, 700 bills that have not been voted on because the Republicans there have no interest in governing?

So, again, using your question, how can DEMOCRATS improve lives for all when they aren't the ones that can make these changes?

The answer to your question is to flip the bold - you improve their lives when in power, so they vote for Democrats, not Republicans.

Which is precisely why Georgia just flipped. Because suburbs with higher living standards flourished and the electoral map changed. Do that over and over again and you defeat Trumpism and the Republicans go back to the drawing board and have to come up with something else for the electorate.

 

[riddick]

The answer to your question is to flip the bold - you improve their lives when in power, so they vote for Democrats, not Republicans.

Which is precisely why Georgia just flipped. Because suburbs with higher living standards flourished and the electoral map changed. Do that over and over again and you defeat Trumpism and the Republicans go back to the drawing board and have to come up with something else for the electorate.

You DO know thats what they were looking to do during this election, no? Expand the ACA, raise the federal minimum wage, expand programs that would help those who need it, etcetc?

And then 70million Americans voted against that idea and likely made them completely unable to do any of that.

So it's all well and good to say "the Democratic party needs to help Americans" except way too many of these people are completely indoctrinated by a "news" agency that blatantly lies to a vast majority of them. Fixing the problem isnt as easy you make it to be when those people routinely vote against their best interest.

 

[Tubey]

It varies enough from place to place in the United States that I'm often surprised by the baldness of racist incidents in some parts of the country even though I've spent my life in not-really-so-groovy Northern California and no-black-person's-idea-of-a-racially-enlightened-city Boston. I can't imagine what it looks like from another country altogether.

But neither race nor economic opportunity is ever a sole determinant; they wax and wane (along with other social and cultural concerns) as influences in response to historical contingency. (And obviously not just with whites. Trump's improved standing among blacks and Latinos doesn't indicate that most of such voters don't think he's racist, just that they can be willing to countenance a president's personal bigotry if they're able to pursue other interests thereby.)

Obama's a charismatic and capable man of mixed racial background whose outward manner in speech and comportment is more "educated cosmopolitan culture" than "black culture," and his campaign occurred in the midst of national emergency as the economy circled the drain. His main primary opponent was Hillary Clinton (I'm sure you've heard of her) and though his general election opponent, John McCain, was a pretty popular figure among a lot of Dems as well as Republicans, I don't think any Republican was going to win the presidency in 2008 in the wake of the disastrousness of the Bush administration. Though explicit racists probably didn't vote for Obama, I'm not surprised that lots of people with less heat to their prejudice were willing to give him a go.

Right, I agree with pretty much all of that. So when you said this:

Why are you so insistent that racism isn't nearly as determining a factor in American politics as Americans may believe?

There's your answer in your own words. Simply put, I'm insistent on it because it isn't, because if it was, Obama - a black man - wouldn't have been elected. But he was, because other factors where much more important.

So for that reason, racism isn't a "determining factor" when people go to the polls. It's a minor one. That's my sole point - that when exit polls say that the biggest issue for Republicans was the economy by a country mile, they aren't lying; they mean it. There'll be loads of racists who voted Trump not because of their racism, but because of their views on the economy; the fact they're a racist as well isn't necessarily relevant at all to their voting intention.

So when you say "neither race nor economic opportunity is ever a sole determinant" of a vote, that's where I disagree; for an awful lot of people, their economic position is the sole determinant. If one guy getting in will make you £2,000 a year better off, odds are for a lot of people they're voting for that guy. If that guy happens to be black, who cares, £2,000 better off, they'll tick the box and cope with it even if they're racist.

 

[Tubey]

You DO know thats what they were looking to do during this election, no? Expand the ACA, raise the federal minimum wage, expand programs that would help those who need it, etcetc?

And then 70million Americans voted against that idea and likely made them completely unable to do any of that.

So it's all well and good to say "the Democratic party needs to help Americans" except way too many of these people are completely indoctrinated by a "news" agency that blatantly lies to a vast majority of them. Fixing the problem isnt as easy you make it to be when those people routinely vote against their best interest.

Because they don't believe them. So the proof is in the pudding - do it, then see what happens.

You had Clinton in 2016 call these people 'deplorables'. That's what these people believe; that the Dems don't give a toss about them.

Obama, for all his massive pros as a politician, didn't do much for small town America, largely due to the economic crash (a HUGE ongoing determining factor on our politics by the way...) - that's the wave that Trump rode and what needs to be addressed.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Because they don't believe them. So the proof is in the pudding - do it, then see what happens.

You had Clinton in 2016 call these people 'deplorables'. That's what these people believe; that the Dems don't give a toss about them.

Obama, for all his massive pros as a politician, didn't do much for small town America, largely due to the economic crash (a HUGE ongoing determining factor on our politics by the way...) - that's the wave that Trump rode and what needs to be addressed.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the last paragraph

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[Bideneverton]

she has lost her mind

 

[BlueTX]

The answer to your question is to flip the bold - you improve their lives when in power, so they vote for Democrats, not Republicans.

Which is precisely why Georgia just flipped. Because suburbs with higher living standards flourished and the electoral map changed. Do that over and over again and you defeat Trumpism and the Republicans go back to the drawing board and have to come up with something else for the electorate.

Wait a sec. So the suburbs flipped because economic conditions improved for them and they then voted AGAINST the party in power? This pretty much poops all over the argument for improving the lives of ordinary Americans. Most US suburbs are filled with people who fled the big city for new, bigger homes with newer schools. White flight. They're largely populated with younger (under 50) educated, white people or older retired people. They flipped, mostly, because they are sick of Trump's nonsense not because of improved economic status.

Contrast that with the Rio Grande Valley in Texas. Big swing to Trump despite being hugely Hispanic. Why? Because of improved oil and gas exploration in the area due to fracking as well as a shedload of new jobs in border security. Also a fat $1200 check and letter from the White House - more than they've received from anyone in the state in generations.

The latter is the reason for my call to focus on economic expansion for the working poor and middle class.

 

[Huyton Layne]

If only his alter ego from being a decent person wasn't being an absolute cowardly shitgibbon.

 

[trueblue84]

If only his alter ego from being a decent person wasn't being an absolute cowardly shitgibbon.

Americans voted him in. What did they expect?

Always comes back to the saying "Every nation gets the government it deserves".

 

[spectateur]

Americans voted him in. What did they expect?

Always comes back to the saying "Every nation gets the government it deserves".
[/QUOTE
Unfortunately tens of millions still believe all he tweets.
They believe that the election was fraudulent.
They will never accept Biden.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

So Joe won Georgia. This is getting boring, when is that fat mess going to concede?

 

[davmaher]

So Joe won Georgia. This is getting boring, when is that fat mess going to concede?

He won't concede. He believes he won and that there is a conspiracy to get him out of the White House. Not many in the Republican party will do or say anything to challenge this as it would be political suicide to do so. It will end up either at the Supreme Court or with Trump being dragged kicking and screaming from the White House. Assuming Biden gets to assume the presidency the next 4 years will be a stale-mate at best because of the make up of the Senate and the House. None of the bickering will stop, conspiracy theories will continue to dominated and America will become less and less democratic. Unless something dramatic happens to stop it I think it will become a right-wing dictatorship in all but name within 10 years.

 

[Hickson9]

So Joe won Georgia. This is getting boring, when is that fat mess going to concede?

He isn't going to concede. Ever.