The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Bally1960]

Aye I wonder why Blair likes the EU so much couldnt have anything to do with the vast amounts he's pocketed from it would it now?

 

[The Esk]

Genuine question:

What is the problem with Blair being a commercial success after he left public office?

 

[Blue 1]

I hate it when I read the words "Tony Blair" and they aren't followed by "has caught fire".

 

[Seanjd]

Compassion, so you think Labour has more compassion? Oh ye of short memory. I will show Labour compassion. This not anti Labour or pro any other party just putting the record straight in a few areas.

Back in 2004/2005 Brown was chancellor and he had in the teasury the two Eds, Balls' wife and Darling. In the budget the state pensionwas increased by 75p per week, yes 75p which is £39 per annum. It took about two months for Brown to realise how obscene such an increase was. Amounting to less than .05% of an increase when inflation was running at an average of 2%. He could not correct it by redoing the budget but what he did was create the Heating Allowance of £100 pp but in his haste to get this out messed up in that it was also payable to the rich, very rich and very, very rich. Sheer idiocy to incompetence you choose but showed a lack of compassion at the start.

In 2008 Brown abolished the 10% band and if you recall his budget speech (the last one before he took over as PM) this announcement was left to the last minute of the speech because Brown wanted to catch everyone out thinking he had done some thing to help all the workers, remember who was in the Treasury with him. It took about two weeks for all the complaints to get through to him that he had just caused all the lower paid to pay more tax i,e. at 20%. Darling was now Chancellor and to correct this blunder he had to borrow £5 billion adding to the UK debt mountain. So where was the compassion not a word of regret from Brown, he was now PM and too busy. Was this idiocy or sheer incompetence you choose.

Look at helping the lower paid workers, in 1997 when Labour came into power, the first budget set the free pay allowance at £4045 by 2010 this was increased to £6475 an increase of £2430 over 13 years hardly took many lower paid out of tax. The current lot (coalition) have in 5 years increased that by £4125. So in all those years where was Labour compassion to help those on low wages.

Look, your examples, like the referendum one you came out with, are so off I can't take it seriously. The pension debacle which you refer to happened in 1999, not 2005. It was subsequently fixed.

Look, you can quote as many labour gaffes as you want. I know as well as you do there are many. But they are mainly gaffes. There is a difference between a couple if labour gaffes and many Conservative idealistic driven policy to which I was referring to earlier on. Labour did not drive the poor into the ground by stopping their benefits. They didn't ship the poor to their local food banks for hand outs. There is only one party doing that. This is the compassion of which I speak.

 

[Seanjd]

Genuine question:

What is the problem with Blair being a commercial success after he left public office?

An opportunity to criticise him? Blair was the leader Labour needed at that point in time. His legacy, quite rightfully, has been tarnished by the Iraq war. He did good, too.

 

[1966efc]

Compassion, so you think Labour has more compassion? Oh ye of short memory. I will show Labour compassion. This not anti Labour or pro any other party just putting the record straight in a few areas.

Look at helping the lower paid workers, in 1997 when Labour came into power, the first budget set the free pay allowance at £4045 by 2010 this was increased to £6475 an increase of £2430 over 13 years hardly took many lower paid out of tax. The current lot (coalition) have in 5 years increased that by £4125. So in all those years where was Labour compassion to help those on low wages.

Perhaps you've forgotten Working Tax Credits which put far more in the pockets of the truly low paid than the relatively insignificant raises in the personal allowance.

 

[sageyefc]

 

[Seanjd]

That's hilarious!

 

[Toffeelover]

Look, your examples, like the referendum one you came out with, are so off I can't take it seriously. The pension debacle which you refer to happened in 1999, not 2005. It was subsequently fixed.

Look, you can quote as many labour gaffes as you want. I know as well as you do there are many. But they are mainly gaffes. There is a difference between a couple if labour gaffes and many Conservative idealistic driven policy to which I was referring to earlier on. Labour did not drive the poor into the ground by stopping their benefits. They didn't ship the poor to their local food banks for hand outs. There is only one party doing that. This is the compassion of which I speak.

Whether they are gaffes as you claim or not, i think one could say incompetence. So how could the electorate trust such a party to govern again? Those "gaffes" still cost people.

AS for the cuts, if the Country had not been darn near bankrupt in 2010 there may well not have been the need for such cuts, and who got the country into that state?

You are seemingly well informed on these points, are you associated with the Labour Party?

 

[daylightrobber]

Aye but he did duck out of a vote.

We elect politicians to make decisions on our behalf not to pass the them back to the general public to make. That way we can legitimately vote the people who made those decisions out of office if they've failed us.

Sign of a strong leader in my book.

 

[Toffeelover]

Perhaps you've forgotten Working Tax Credits which put far more in the pockets of the truly low paid than the relatively insignificant raises in the personal allowance.

No I have not but such a system should not have been required. It was also ill thought out and still is a mess. When it was first introduced the IT systems crashed and it all had to be done manually. It was such a cock up that millions were lost and even now it is still riddled with fraud.

If Brown had just adjusted the coding allowances and the thresholds the lower paid could have been helped far more easily and without having to employ a lot more Civil servants.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Compassion, so you think Labour has more compassion? Oh ye of short memory. I will show Labour compassion. This not anti Labour or pro any other party just putting the record straight in a few areas.

Back in 2004/2005 Brown was chancellor and he had in the teasury the two Eds, Balls' wife and Darling. In the budget the state pensionwas increased by 75p per week, yes 75p which is £39 per annum. It took about two months for Brown to realise how obscene such an increase was. Amounting to less than .05% of an increase when inflation was running at an average of 2%. He could not correct it by redoing the budget but what he did was create the Heating Allowance of £100 pp but in his haste to get this out messed up in that it was also payable to the rich, very rich and very, very rich. Sheer idiocy to incompetence you choose but showed a lack of compassion at the start.

In 2008 Brown abolished the 10% band and if you recall his budget speech (the last one before he took over as PM) this announcement was left to the last minute of the speech because Brown wanted to catch everyone out thinking he had done some thing to help all the workers, remember who was in the Treasury with him. It took about two weeks for all the complaints to get through to him that he had just caused all the lower paid to pay more tax i,e. at 20%. Darling was now Chancellor and to correct this blunder he had to borrow £5 billion adding to the UK debt mountain. So where was the compassion not a word of regret from Brown, he was now PM and too busy. Was this idiocy or sheer incompetence you choose.

Look at helping the lower paid workers, in 1997 when Labour came into power, the first budget set the free pay allowance at £4045 by 2010 this was increased to £6475 an increase of £2430 over 13 years hardly took many lower paid out of tax. The current lot (coalition) have in 5 years increased that by £4125. So in all those years where was Labour compassion to help those on low wages.

I guess introducing a national minimum wage and child tax credits, winter fuel allowance, lifting a million adults and half a million children out of poverty doesn't count as compassion because there were a few gaffes then?

I don't think anyone is arguing that labour have been perfect in recent years, far from it, but how can you deny that they have more compassion than the other key players, save for perhaps the Green Party (who don't look credible on other counts)?

The coalition have disgraced themselves with the bedroom tax, universal credit, stringent disability allowance testing, benefit delays resulting in record users of food banks.

Pointing out some gaffes of Gordon Brown is really irrelevant in this argument. We should be looking at the present options. Miliband may lack certain qualities, but compassion isn't one of them in my view. Cameron loses the right to claim that he cares about the poor when he puts Iain Duncan Smith in charge of benefits.

 

[Seanjd]

Whether they are gaffes as you claim or not, i think one could say incompetence. So how could the electorate trust such a party to govern again? Those "gaffes" still cost people.

AS for the cuts, if the Country had not been darn near bankrupt in 2010 there may well not have been the need for such cuts, and who got the country into that state?

You are seemingly well informed on these points, are you associated with the Labour Party?

No, I used to be a member but I'm not any more. I'm a disillusioned Labour voter, but I will be voting Labour in May. Of course the gaffes cost, but nowhere near on the same scale as ideological cuts. Cuts of the severity of the last 5 years have been totally unnecessary.

The global financial crash got the country into that state and it would have happened under any political party.

 

[Toffeelover]

We elect politicians to make decisions on our behalf not to pass the them back to the general public to make. That way we can legitimately vote the people who made those decisions out of office if they've failed us.

Sign of a strong leader in my book.

At the time we are talking of Brown was not the leader! He became Leader courtesy of Blair stepping out in 2007.

 

[1966efc]

No I have not but such a system should not have been required. It was also ill thought out and still is a mess. When it was first introduced the IT systems crashed and it all had to be done manually. It was such a cock up that millions were lost and even now it is still riddled with fraud.

If Brown had just adjusted the coding allowances and the thresholds the lower paid could have been helped far more easily and without having to employ a lot more Civil servants.

That's a question of opinion. Your premise was that Labour had failed to introduce measures to back up their claims of compassion for the less well off. Operational difficulties there were but your premise, in my view, is incorrect.