The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[The Mighty Quint]

Can someone tell me how the Tories can claim success with the Economy when the national debt has doubled in the last 5 years under their watch to 1.5 trillion?

 

[Groucho]

It's at this juncture in the election that we're going to need Jeremy Kyle to come and sit on the step if the leaders debates go on.

 

[atrottel]

The real value in the smartphone however comes from the apps that are created for it.

Except, of course, we discover that not only does the government bug everything and everyone through legalised backdoors in the hardware or software (naturally, just to thwart paedophiles, drug dealers and terrorists), businesses are now busy selling all that information that you clicked Yes to when you agreed to use the app and didn't read the T&C. As the old (in internet years) saying goes, if you can't work out how something is making money, you are what is being sold.

And the push for profit-centres in the NHS turns into flogging off your patient details for pennies to data mining companies who then happily sell them on for stairlift retailers to bombard invalids with nuisance calls.

 

[Eggs]

Something to consider with London is that 37% of the people who live here were not born here, so may well not be eligible to vote, unless they've married a Brit and have become nationalised. None of the immigrants I know, for instance, are eligible. Of course, they may all have voted Labour anyway, but it's worth remembering.



I think you're selling things a bit short here by focusing purely on economics, for there is also a disconnect between who should be providing the service. The left seem to believe that the state is not only the best group of people to provide a service, but should be the only group of people to provide a service, which is just as elitist as this notion of 'trickle down'.

It's also increasingly out of step with the modern world. There's a saying in innovation circles - "whoever you work for, the smartest people will work for someone else". In other words, it's madness to assume that only you have the answers to a particular challenge, because it's inevitable that if you open up your thinking, and increasingly your service, there are better options out there.

Take, for example, the most rapidly expanding technology the world has ever seen - the smartphone (most of which are powered by UK brains incidentally). I'm not going to sell the hardware short, because the average smartphone is a wonderful bit of kit, without a shadow of doubt. The real value in the smartphone however comes from the apps that are created for it.

Whilst there are some apps that are produced by Apple and Samsung, Google and Microsoft, the vast majority are not. Millions of people from around the world have developed add-on services to turn what is a useful bit of hardware into the most versatile device known to man. The modern smartphone can do everything from conduct medical procedures to monitor air pollution, all because of the ingenuity of people that have nothing to do with the manufacturers themselves.

So, if you look at the 5 Year Plan for the NHS (which predictably barely any of them referred to when scaremongering about privatisation), that is exactly what they're talking about. It's admitting that government doesn't have all of the answers, and shouldn't claim to, and that by opening up the process, it will almost certainly produce better services for less money.

.....I think the fundamental point of the state running a service is that it is a service, it is not a profit making business. If the railway is a national 'service' it will run non profit making routes because the public in remote areas need that transport to get to work.

The NHS can't be a bottomless pit, it has to be efficient but ultimately it is a 'service' with the prime objective of meeting the requirements of the nation.

 

[Seanjd]

Except, of course, we discover that not only does the government bug everything and everyone through legalised backdoors in the hardware or software (naturally, just to thwart paedophiles, drug dealers and terrorists), businesses are now busy selling all that information that you clicked Yes to when you agreed to use the app and didn't read the T&C. As the old (in internet years) saying goes, if you can't work out how something is making money, you are what is being sold.

And the push for profit-centres in the NHS turns into flogging off your patient details for pennies to data mining companies who then happily sell them on for stairlift retailers to bombard invalids with nuisance calls.

Excellent point.

 

[The Esk]

Don't forget all these wonderful food banks we have.

Although bankers must shoulder blame for that

Don't forget that the only reason there are more people using food banks is because there are more food banks.

It's not because they need them, it's just because they're there......

(Government response to why more people use food banks)

 

[Clint Planet]

Except, of course, we discover that not only does the government bug everything and everyone through legalised backdoors in the hardware or software (naturally, just to thwart paedophiles, drug dealers and terrorists), businesses are now busy selling all that information that you clicked Yes to when you agreed to use the app and didn't read the T&C. As the old (in internet years) saying goes, if you can't work out how something is making money, you are what is being sold.

And the push for profit-centres in the NHS turns into flogging off your patient details for pennies to data mining companies who then happily sell them on for stairlift retailers to bombard invalids with nuisance calls.

That's progress!

 

[Seanjd]

Call me Susan, but I don't think foreign affairs were mentioned once last night, apart from the ramblings of Farage. Russia,Iran,Syria, Southern European countries' debt mountain, the barbarians of ISIS. It's like there was an impenetrable fog around the UK.
You can bet your bottom dollar though that Cameron will use any opportunity to project a 'leadership' demeanour if a foreign crisis further develops closer to polling day.
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There were originally supposed to be 4 leadership debates though. If you remember last time, the issues were split up between the debates. I reckon foreign affairs will feature in the next debate on 16th, without Cameron. The question time on the 30th with Cam, Clegg and Ed might be interesting.

 

[Clint Planet]

Don't forget that the only reason there are more people using food banks is because there are more food banks.

It's not because they need them, it's just because they're there......

(Government response to why more people use food banks)

Which, alone, is reason enough to kick this scum out of office.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Tbh I don't know why any nationalist party is accepted. The BNP are hounded and with good reason, why not the SNP? They've only got the interests of the Scottish people at heart, they don't give a toss about the Northern Irish, English or Welsh.

Scottish nationalism and English nationalism are two very different beasts. What you're saying is akin to saying anyone who believes in a fairer society is a Stalinst.

English nationalism has developed on the grounds of racial superiority and discrimination, it is about anti-immigration and it breeds bigotry.

The SNP campaign is simply for Scottish independence or, failing that, greater self-governance. There are no extremist undertones and it is owing to the fact that they have traditionally been governed by a different country. Their policies are left of centre and very inoffensive.

You say that no nationalist party should be accepted, totally ignoring the fact that some real extremists who do discriminate based on nationality are also involved (UKIP).

 

[Dymak]

Given the outrage culture that has existed in Britain for the last 15 years, in which someone calling Dwight Yorke a monkey makes front page news, I find it remarkable that everyone seems to be OK with the overt racism that governs are non-EU immigration policy. Apparently it's OK to be racist to people from outside the EU, but an absolute disgrace to be racist to people from within the EU when it comes to immigration.

How does that work out? Perhaps its got something to do with the fact that deep down, everyone knows that immigration control is absolutely crucial to maintaining a safe and healthy society, and that preventing everyone and anyone from coming into our country is genuinely in the national interest?

There are two ways to eradicate racism from immigration policy. One is to do away with any immigration policy whatsoever and let anyone in, the other is to take race out of the equation and only allow people in based on their ability to contribute to society. Which, I believe, is what is being implemented in those absolutely disgraceful, racist nations, such as Australia and the US! It isn't racist to turn someone down on the grounds of ability.

My problem with my own viewpoint on this, is that my views change when I am in front of an immigrant who is suffering from substantial disability. When I see someone suffering from Multiple Sclerosis, Muscular Dystrophy, or Cerebral Palsy etc, I just do not care where they come from, and I start feeling like these guys deserve a break from the world, and I have no problem with our local authorities paying the considerable amount of money that is required to care for these people. In fact, I've had more than the odd run in with minge-bag councils on this matter.

But to be fair to some councils, their care bills are ridiculously huge, and I know of at least one council were about 60% of their physical disabilities cohort is made up of immigrant families. That's a lot of people whose own country DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THEM, and who have come over to the UK to take advantage of our health care system. If a disabled British person emigrated to Romania and asked for a physical disabilities care package, they would just laugh in the person's face and tell them to go home! That's the TRUTH of the matter!

However, I've also come across Polish speaking methadone clinics, in which an entire day is set aside to deal with a city's heroin addicted Polish population. You know, the ones who behave themselves within the community and aren't remotely involved in the prostitution industry! Why in god's name are we paying an awful lot of money to care for these scumbags? Why? We should not be accepting other countries' criminals for any reason whatsoever. We have enough of our own and we do not need any more, and I don't care if anyone thinks I am racist for saying that.

Furthermore, I was speaking to someone the other day, and he believes that the introduction of the new Care Act is the Tories way of trying to ruin and bring down our social care system. I thought he was a paranoid crank at first, but when you accept that the Care Act is lowering the threshold of eligibility for social care services (which it is) and that the Tories are making massive cuts to councils social care budgets (which they are) then this guy's hypothesis does not seem far fetched at all.

Again, I have no problem with a person who needs an expensive care package no matter where they come from, but when we live in a world were many countries simply do not care about their own citizens never mind immigrants, then I think we also might have to be a bit harsh in order to protect our own country and our own citizens.

 

[TheAlmightyFloater]

Over 1800 new SNP members since the debate last night.

 

[Clint Planet]

There are two ways to eradicate racism from immigration policy. One is to do away with any immigration policy whatsoever and let anyone in, the other is to take race out of the equation and only allow people in based on their ability to contribute to society. Which, I believe, is what is being implemented in those absolutely disgraceful, racist nations, such as Australia and the US! It isn't racist to turn someone down on the grounds of ability.

.

I take your point but would point out that black people do less well academically than white and yet only a racist would argue whites are cleverer than blacks so there must be other barriers to their academic progress. All of this of course means you're more likely to get into Australia or the USA if you're white.

 

[Groucho]

Given the outrage culture that has existed in Britain for the last 15 years, in which someone calling Dwight Yorke a monkey makes front page news, I find it remarkable that everyone seems to be OK with the overt racism that governs are non-EU immigration policy. Apparently it's OK to be racist to people from outside the EU, but an absolute disgrace to be racist to people from within the EU when it comes to immigration.

How does that work out? Perhaps its got something to do with the fact that deep down, everyone knows that immigration control is absolutely crucial to maintaining a safe and healthy society, and that preventing everyone and anyone from coming into our country is genuinely in the national interest?

There are two ways to eradicate racism from immigration policy. One is to do away with any immigration policy whatsoever and let anyone in, the other is to take race out of the equation and only allow people in based on their ability to contribute to society. Which, I believe, is what is being implemented in those absolutely disgraceful, racist nations, such as Australia and the US! It isn't racist to turn someone down on the grounds of ability.

My problem with my own viewpoint on this, is that my views change when I am in front of an immigrant who is suffering from substantial disability. When I see someone suffering from Multiple Sclerosis, Muscular Dystrophy, or Cerebral Palsy etc, I just do not care where they come from, and I start feeling like these guys deserve a break from the world, and I have no problem with our local authorities paying the considerable amount of money that is required to care for these people. In fact, I've had more than the odd run in with minge-bag councils on this matter.

But to be fair to some councils, their care bills are ridiculously huge, and I know of at least one council were about 60% of their physical disabilities cohort is made up of immigrant families. That's a lot of people whose own country DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THEM, and who have come over to the UK to take advantage of our health care system. If a disabled British person emigrated to Romania and asked for a physical disabilities care package, they would just laugh in the person's face and tell them to go home! That's the TRUTH of the matter!

However, I've also come across Polish speaking methadone clinics, in which an entire day is set aside to deal with a city's heroin addicted Polish population. You know, the ones who behave themselves within the community and aren't remotely involved in the prostitution industry! Why in god's name are we paying an awful lot of money to care for these scumbags? Why? We should not be accepting other countries' criminals for any reason whatsoever. We have enough of our own and we do not need any more, and I don't care if anyone thinks I am racist for saying that.

Furthermore, I was speaking to someone the other day, and he believes that the introduction of the new Care Act is the Tories way of trying to ruin and bring down our social care system. I thought he was a paranoid crank at first, but when you accept that the Care Act is lowering the threshold of eligibility for social care services (which it is) and that the Tories are making massive cuts to councils social care budgets (which they are) then this guy's hypothesis does not seem far fetched at all.

Again, I have no problem with a person who needs an expensive care package no matter where they come from, but when we live in a world were many countries simply do not care about their own citizens never mind immigrants, then I think we also might have to be a bit harsh in order to protect our own country and our own citizens.

I'm afraid you don't speak for me there - I'm not ok with racism, whether EU or not.

You make a point about being kind to ill people regardless of nationality, then call Polish addicts scumbags - I know the two are different but it sounds a bit odd.

 

[Seanjd]

I know of at least one council were about 60% of their physical disabilities cohort is made up of immigrant families. That's a lot of people whose own country DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THEM, and who have come over to the UK to take advantage of our health care system.


Again, I have no problem with a person who needs an expensive care package no matter where they come from

Sounds a bit like you do, though.

We should take pride of the fact that we will help those in need while other countries don't, not try to imitate them.