The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[edge]

It's not being sold off, they're hiring a private company to help them meet demand. It's like a school using a supply teacher and being accused of privatising the school.

Labour are putting a limit on how much the private companys can make when offering a service think its 5% profit, wonder how that will have an affect on the tentering for work in the NHS?

 

[TheAlmightyFloater]

It's not being sold off, they're hiring a private company to help them meet demand. It's like a school using a supply teacher and being accused of privatising the school.

I get what you are saying but it still doesn't add up in my eyes. If they have the money to spend on private contracts, why not invest it in the NHS anyway and cut out the middle-man.

These private companies charge more in order to make a profit, and it's Tories and Tory donors that sit on the board/are shareholders.

It looks like they're just lining their friends and their own pockets.

 

[Seanjd]

It's not being sold off, they're hiring a private company to help them meet demand. It's like a school using a supply teacher and being accused of privatising the school.

I'm glad you mentioned supply teaching, because that's also a despicable use of private company in a tax funded service. Supply teachers used to be spliced solely by the Local Education Authority and were paid at the same rate as full time teachers. Now, a number of umbrella companies own a plethora of supply teacher provider companies who make profit from the tax payer. They hold their accounts off shore and so their earnings are not put back into the tax system as they should be. They also depress teachers pay by taking a cut if what they earn per day.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You're getting a bit pedantic over the definition of privatisation, which is broad enough to encompass the government outsourcing of services to the private sector.

No one is arguing that the govt have sold the NHS to private companies. Selling the NHS would be political suicide, so the way they introduce competition into the health sector is by tendering the contracts to private companies, who have been providing more and more services over recent years, with worrying results.

All the studies show that introducing competition into health care results in poorer service for the patient.

@Seanjd is right, it represents steps towards privatisation. It's a worrying trend which anyone who cares about the NHS should be wary of.

When the term you're using is such an emotive one then I think you have to be accurate with its usage. By suggesting something is privatised creates the impression that you will have to pay for your healthcare, whether that's via insurance or whatever. That isn't what's happening here whatsoever.

I've said this numerous times now, but I'll say it again, if you read the NHS five year plan published only last autumn, it makes no mention of privatisation, but it does make mention of ensuring that NHS patients get the best service, regardless of whether that is from public, private or non-profit providers.

As long as the state still pays for this, I'm not sure really what the problem is?

Labour are putting a limit on how much the private companys can make when offering a service think its 5% profit, wonder how that will have an affect on the tentering for work in the NHS?

It's populism and nothing else I suspect. We had adverts from the BMA asking parties to stop playing silly buggers with the NHS during the election time, and it would help if they stop spreading lies. What is so wrong with saying that the NHS chief executive has produced a plan that he thinks will work well for the NHS, and we will support him in delivering that?

I get what you are saying but it still doesn't add up in my eyes. If they have the money to spend on private contracts, why not invest it in the NHS anyway and cut out the middle-man.

These private companies charge more in order to make a profit, and it's Tories and Tory donors that sit on the board/are shareholders.

It looks like they're just lining their friends and their own pockets.

With respect, I think that's probably a little simplistic. I mean last autumn I helped to judge the NHS innovation challenge competition, and among the supporters were the likes of 3M, Accenture, Janssen and Health Fabric. Added to them you had people from organisations like Diabetes UK and other non-profits of that ilk.

Granted, they may have pulled the wool over my eyes in a huge way, but I got the impression they were just people who wanted to make things better. They weren't there for some Machiavellian plot to screw the system.

I'm sure there will be some contracts signed that aren't right, but we have to keep perspective a little. I mean tens of thousands of people die unnecessarily each year in hospitals, but we shouldn't suggest that doctors or nurses are dodgy. Because there are a few bad apples doesn't mean the barrel is rotten

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm glad you mentioned supply teaching, because that's also a despicable use of private company in a tax funded service. Supply teachers used to be spliced solely by the Local Education Authority and were paid at the same rate as full time teachers. Now, a number of umbrella companies own a plethora of supply teacher provider companies who make profit from the tax payer. They hold their accounts off shore and so their earnings are not put back into the tax system as they should be. They also depress teachers pay by taking a cut if what they earn per day.

I'm not saying it's a good practice (any more than agency nursing is), but it isn't privatisation

 

[TheAlmightyFloater]

With respect, I think that's probably a little simplistic. I mean last autumn I helped to judge the NHS innovation challenge competition, and among the supporters were the likes of 3M, Accenture, Janssen and Health Fabric. Added to them you had people from organisations like Diabetes UK and other non-profits of that ilk.

Granted, they may have pulled the wool over my eyes in a huge way, but I got the impression they were just people who wanted to make things better. They weren't there for some Machiavellian plot to screw the system.

I'm sure there will be some contracts signed that aren't right, but we have to keep perspective a little. I mean tens of thousands of people die unnecessarily each year in hospitals, but we shouldn't suggest that doctors or nurses are dodgy. Because there are a few bad apples doesn't mean the barrel is rotten

I think that behind the scenes of Westminster there are a lot more bad apples than the papers let on (but that's just my tin-foil hat talking).

And yes, I agree with you. Some people/companies just want to help. I also think that government bigwigs and their pals/donors have their sticky paws in lots of honey pots and that they serve no one but themselves. I remember a story from a hospital - I think it was in Stoke - where the NHS had to bid against a private company to get a contract to screen patients for cancer or some other illness. The NHS offered to do the screenings for a lot less than the other company, yet the private company won the contract - despite costing the taxpayer millions more?

If I also remember correctly, the equipment used for the scans belongs to the local university and was partly funded by the public. So now the public are paying a private company to use equipment the public helped to pay for, despite the NHS able to do the same job for less money?

It reeks of political nepotism and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a few party donors/members are involved in the private company (I think it was Alliance Medical?).

And for the record, I think Labour would be doing the exact same thing for their pals too, just maybe not as openly.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I personally like the direction David is going in, I dont normally vote, but I do like the colour blue.

So you can feel the recovery in your pocket can you?, because most people don't.

I could have sworn I heard Miliband say in the thing during the week that Labour will also make cuts. Haven't they pretty much signed up to the Tory spending plans for the next term? I might have misheard though as Paxman didn't seem to push him on it.

Yes Labour will make cuts, but not as deep as the Tories are planning, this obsession by them to get the deficit down as fast as possible is just way over the top, you don't try and pay your mortgage off in 10 years and live on bread and water, you take 25 and live a decent life.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

last four tory goverments have put vat up so so are correct why believe them now, they said the same last time.

I remember the promises made by Cameron that he went back on last time, he will say anything to get in, then when he's in he does the opposite of what he's said.

He's got massive form for this, he can not be trusted on his word.

 

[Naiskill]

 

[The Mighty Quint]

That is Brilliant

 

[The Mighty Quint]

The YouGov poll is very interesting this morning.

36-32 in favour of Labour but also shows a 19 point labour lead for people who watched Thursday's "debate"

 

[Clint Planet]

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles

Worth a listen if you've any interest in inequality and how private schooling perpetuates it or if you're the type who blames the poor for their own circumstances. It's set in The Bronx but it applies equally to Toxteth or Tottenham.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles

Worth a listen if you've any interest in inequality and how private schooling perpetuates it or if you're the type who blames the poor for their own circumstances. It's set in The Bronx but it applies equally to Toxteth or Tottenham.

I'll apologise now for these being some of my cool projects, but you might find them interesting

http://www.andela.co/

They aim to help talented kids from Africa get into computing and find work with established companies around the world.

A bit closer to home (relatively speaking) you have http://hatchathens.com in Athens, Georgia, or http://dmdphilly.org/blog/building-heroes-launch-etsy-shop in Philadelphia.

Or there's this one, which is UK based https://forcommoncause.org

Can't guarantee that they'd help a Melanie from not reaching her potential, but from small acorns...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes Labour will make cuts, but not as deep as the Tories are planning, this obsession by them to get the deficit down as fast as possible is just way over the top, you don't try and pay your mortgage off in 10 years and live on bread and water, you take 25 and live a decent life.

Lets be clear here, the government isn't claiming that the debt will be repaid in 5 years, or even 10 years. They're saying that in that time they'd like to reach a situation whereby they stop adding to that debt.

To use your mortgage analogy, currently it's more akin to taking out a mortgage that is not only interest only (so you're not paying it back), but you also take out an extra loan each year on top of your mortgage because you can't bare to live according to what you currently earn so need payday loans to top you up.

That's the mess public finances are in. Trying to dig yourself out of a whole springs to mind.

 

[Clint Planet]

They aim to help talented kids from Africa get guarantee that they'd help a Melanie from not reaching her potential, but from small acorns...

Presumably, you can see now more where I'm coming from. I think that podcast is devastating. It really resonates with my own experiences, too.