Current Affairs Syria...

[SteveSC]

"We should do something about this" is basically as far as the interventionist crowd goes, there isn't usually a plan as to what happens after that and there certainly isn't any kind of global standard as to what is and what is not acceptable (take Syria for example - Assad using 500lb bombs to level Gouta is fine, but using chemical weapons is beyond the pale).

Exactly this. Dozens of documentaries and news articles highlighting the day in day out destruction of its cities and people and the west seemingly only want to take action when children are killed by gas.

He targets hospitals and schools with those bombs you mention and not an eye lid batted bt Trump and his administration.

All death there should be on peoples radars.

 

[Tubey]

"We should do something about this" is basically as far as the interventionist crowd goes, there isn't usually a plan as to what happens after that and there certainly isn't any kind of global standard as to what is and what is not acceptable (take Syria for example - Assad using 500lb bombs to level Gouta is fine, but using chemical weapons is beyond the pale).

That's BS. The onus isn't on the "interventionist crowd" to come up with the plan - what they're saying is that there should be a plan.

Whereas those of you who bang on about Iraq - a mistake - do so without understanding that you can learn from mistakes. You can't use one example of something going wrong to completely refuse to do anything ever again - that's why you have Assad backed by Putin doing whatever the hell they want because they know useful idiots will shield them from retaliation in the west.

 

[Tubey]

I think that’s a completely reasonable response mate . So what do we do ,Who do we bomb ? Do We disable all of Assad’s aircraft so handing the initiative to ISIL or do we try to kill Assad or his people and leave a vacuum? Or just a little bit of strategic bombing to make a point , because does that really help ? Do you only oppose gassing of babies because according to UNICEF over a thousand children were killed or injured in the first two months of this year in Syria . I want to do something as well but I can’t help but think doing something without planning or thinking it out can on occasion be worse than doing nothing .

That’s the problem with Syria and often with the Middle East as a whole the place , positions are just shifting . It’s a horrendous situation and one I certainly feel conflicted about .

I don't have those answers. I mean obviously I don't - no one person does. However, I feel that the approach should be to act to solve those questions and not just 'Neville Chamberlain' our way through everything because we're terrified of making a mistake, leaving children to die to chemical weapons attacks in the process.

So have people thinking on solutions and have as part of that 'answer kit' the ability to use force. Because it isn't inherently a bad thing to do so as long as it's done right.

 

[Walken]

That's BS. The onus isn't on the "interventionist crowd" to come up with the plan - what they're saying is that there should be a plan.

Whereas those of you who bang on about Iraq - a mistake - do so without understanding that you can learn from mistakes. You can't use one example of something going wrong to completely refuse to do anything ever again - that's why you have Assad backed by Putin doing whatever the hell they want because they know useful idiots will shield them from retaliation in the west.

LOL nice one boris, get your banners out to march on this tremendous stance, 'Do Something', maybe even throw a question mark on it

 

[Tubey]

Are Assad getting removed from power? Is that the plan?

I trust you know the specific intricacies and social structures of this region before advocating a bombing campaign.

The plan would be to stop a genocide taking place. How that is a bad thing is beyond me.

And again, no, I don't, but that doesn't mean nobody has those answers if they're allowed to sit down, think up a plan and enact it - but what happens instead now is every time someone wants to do something about this, a bunch of beauts on Twitter start screaming "Iraq!" and "Tony Blair!" over and over again and these tinpot dictators go on doing whatever they want as a result.

 

[Tubey]

LOL nice one boris, get your banners out to march on this tremendous stance, 'Do Something', maybe even throw a question mark on it

It's a very apt phrase for them - they are easily manipulated and don't think beyond their own political stance.

If someone mentions the word "bomb", they'll protest it regardless of context. Because Tony Blair or something.

 

[ilikecheese]

I really need to educate myself on this better before I have an opinion.

 

[Walken]

It's a very apt phrase for them - they are easily manipulated and don't think beyond their own political stance.

If someone mentions the word "bomb", they'll protest it regardless of context. Because Tony Blair or something.

you are the only one in here mentioning Iraq, you can't even think beyond a statement you made at the start of the thread, now you can't think beyond the categories you have boxed people in, like a bad davek impression this

 

[Harryflashman]

I don't have those answers. I mean obviously I don't - no one person does. However, I feel that the approach should be to act to solve those questions and not just 'Neville Chamberlain' our way through everything because we're terrified of making a mistake, leaving children to die to chemical weapons attacks in the process.

So have people thinking on solutions and have as part of that 'answer kit' the ability to use force. Because it isn't inherently a bad thing to do so as long as it's done right.

Mate trust me I’m not a pacifist or an anti-war campaigner, not at all and I’m certainly not an appeaser . That doesn’t mean doing some for the sake of not doing something is the answer. It isn’t appeasement to not want to leave behind another nation worse then when we intervened . Never mind Iraq , where lads I know personally died , but Libya where we simply didn’t learn from our mistakes it was clueless. There is no nationwide functioning government in Libya , I think some sources identify over 50 children having
been killed in Libya this year not to mention the hundreds of thousands without clean water or the refugees beaten and raped.

Syria is a mess , we are working with just about every side there against another from one day to the next . The idea of bombing for the sake of it , because otherwise that’s appeasement is Just not a plan .

 

[davek]

Reuters: - Saudi Arabia intercepted a ballistic missile launched by Yemen’s Houthis towards the southern city of Jizan, Saudi-owned broadcaster Al Arabiya TV said on Wednesday. Al Arabiya said earlier that Saudi air defence forces had intercepted a missile over Riyadh after at least three blasts were heard in the capital.

 

[Moomin]

@Tubey has turned full Daily Mail Tory.

 

[Toast]

I really need to educate myself on this better before I have an opinion.

Not the only one mate.

What does surprise me, is how the images of the chemical attacks dosent even shock me anymore.

How on earth did I get to this point ?

 

[Tubey]

you are the only one in here mentioning Iraq, you can't even think beyond a statement you made at the start of the thread, now you can't think beyond the categories you have boxed people in, like a bad davek impression this

Ha... the reason I mention Iraq at all is because that is honestly the only rallying cry you ever hear, probably because people don't know anything about history before the turn of the century.

How about the Spanish Civil War used as a proxy war by the Nazis to test weaponry. Similar to Russian involvement in Syria now.

Or how about the annexation of the Sudetenland and the claim on the Free City of Danzig etc. - testing the boundaries of the international community through measured aggression.

Or how about identifying the modern day parallels from the revanchism and irrendentism that blossomed prior to both World Wars with Crimea?

History is there to be learned from. All of it, not just selected pieces.

 

[sageyefc]

Not the only one mate.

What does surprise me, is how the images of the chemical attacks dosent even shock me anymore.

How on earth did I get to this point ?

2 girls one cup for me mate, after seeing that I'm desensitised to everything

 

[Tubey]

Mate trust me I’m not a pacifist or an anti-war campaigner, not at all and I’m certainly not an appeaser . That doesn’t mean doing some for the sake of not doing something is the answer. It isn’t appeasement to not want to leave behind another nation worse then when we intervened . Never mind Iraq , where lads I know personally died , but Libya where we simply didn’t learn from our mistakes it was clueless. There is no nationwide functioning government in Libya , I think some sources identify over 50 children having
been killed in Libya this year not to mention the hundreds of thousands without clean water or the refugees beaten and raped.

Syria is a mess , we are working with just about every side there against another from one day to the next . The idea of bombing for the sake of it , because otherwise that’s appeasement is Just not a plan .

I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that we should have the option of doing something about it beyond waggling a finger and asking politely for them to stop it.

It's delusion to suggest that the west are not hamstrung by popular opinion against intervention in regional conflicts. The "world policeman" reputation under Bush caused horrific harm - not just through the mistakes made, but the legacy left; because now we're afraid to act when we should act.