Current Affairs Stocks and shares and stuff

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SerenityNigh said:
What do you mean by manipulation?
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If he can't, then someone else? If a stock sale is a contract--an agreement between buyer and seller--then where is the manipulation? I know some will suggest shorts, but a short is still a contract (or a pair of contracts), so I still don't see it.

Controlling the issue of new shares or the release of information--that sounds like manipulation to me, but when I read people talk about "manipulation" they don't seem to mean fraud or mismanagement at the corporate level, it always seems to be puppets and strings and Soros-type tinfoil theories. Is there something else going on?
 
SerenityNigh said:
If he can't, then someone else? If a stock sale is a contract--an agreement between buyer and seller--then where is the manipulation? I know some will suggest shorts, but a short is still a contract (or a pair of contracts), so I still don't see it.

Controlling the issue of new shares or the release of information--that sounds like manipulation to me, but when I read people talk about "manipulation" they don't seem to mean fraud or mismanagement at the corporate level, it always seems to be puppets and strings and Soros-type tinfoil theories. Is there something else going on?
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There are many ways to manipulate a market and they happen all the time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
 
SerenityNigh said:
If he can't, then someone else? If a stock sale is a contract--an agreement between buyer and seller--then where is the manipulation? I know some will suggest shorts, but a short is still a contract (or a pair of contracts), so I still don't see it.

Controlling the issue of new shares or the release of information--that sounds like manipulation to me, but when I read people talk about "manipulation" they don't seem to mean fraud or mismanagement at the corporate level, it always seems to be puppets and strings and Soros-type tinfoil theories. Is there something else going on?
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People who cry market manipulation tend to be people who are just plain awful and picking stocks and need an excuse as to why they're down 30% when the overall market has gone up 10%.

Being pedantic, every buy and sell is manipulation to some degree, as you're sending a signal to other buyers and sellers in the market. Somebody who owns a large shareholding in X can manipulate the share price by selling or buying large quantities of shares for example.

Insider trading is the largest risk, and, obviously, has and always will happen - but it doesn't move markets.
 
Mrk said:
People who cry market manipulation tend to be people who are just plain awful and picking stocks and need an excuse as to why they're down 30% when the overall market has gone up 10%.

Being pedantic, every buy and sell is manipulation to some degree, as you're sending a signal to other buyers and sellers in the market. Somebody who owns a large shareholding in X can manipulate the share price by selling or buying large quantities of shares for example.

Insider trading is the largest risk, and, obviously, has and always will happen - but it doesn't move markets.
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Disinformation, information fraud, etc., all of that I agree with. HF trading being able to provide arbitrage... well I don't really see that as manipulation, that just sounds like someone else better at the same game as you. And trading algorithms... I don't have any loss of love for these, so outwitting an algorithm is spoils for the victor.

Here's some *legitimate* market manipulation I can get behind: share buybacks. I'm not sure I see how holding a large volume of shares otherwise creates manipulation, but I guess that might fit. So then, manipulation?

**ok, people like Jim Cramer are obviously using their platform for personal gain, I would put them in the "manipulation" camp, but not sure how large his flex may be.
 
SerenityNigh said:
To elaborate, it's mostly a list of misinformation (which is outright fraud, which is prohibited) or animal spirits. I guess if you're into technical analysis, animal spirits may be your thing. I'm more into grad students making rap videos.

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its really not misinformation. The SEC take market manipulation very seriously and it happens regularly in both crypto & legacy finance. You are burying your head in the sand if you think otherwise.


I am not really into technical analysis, if you trade there is a very high chance you will lose all your money.
 
DuuuncanHadaPigeon said:
its really not misinformation. The SEC take market manipulation very seriously and it happens regularly in both crypto & legacy finance. You are burying your head in the sand if you think otherwise.


I am not really into technical analysis, if you trade there is a very high chance you will lose all your money.
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Of course the SEC takes manipulation seriously, that's their job. But on the claims of manipulation people make, these falls into two camps: direct misinformation, which spans everything from Cramer to Reddit; indirect misinformation, which amounts to false orders, etc., driving the animal spirits. So then people are saying false things to get people in a buying/selling frenzy? And traders are placing orders at arbitrarily low/high prices to affect volume and other trades?

I guess, but seems less than it's made out to be, or at least I'd be surprised true fraud happened as often as people suggest.
 
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