Roberto Martinez discussion

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I have to admit there is a lot I found myself agreeing with in this article.

http://www.footballfancast.com/prem...everton-underachieving-under-roberto-martinez

Everton’s 3-3 draw with Bournemouth on Saturday was symptomatic of Roberto Martinez’ reign; thrilling football for the Premier League’s neutrals, yet an underwhelming result for a club that should be striving for better.

It’s hard not to like Martinez. He’s charmingly well-spoken, devoted to attacking football and recorded one of the greatest underdog achievements in FA Cup history upon lifting the title with Wigan Athletic in 2013.

But the Spaniard was appointed Goodison boss on the proviso that he could take Everton to the promised land of Champions League football after the Toffees’ decade of knocking on the door under David Moyes, and so far he has failed to deliver. In fact, they seem to be moving further back in the queue, now finding themselves ninth in the Premier League table and leapfrogged by clubs like Leicester City, Crystal Palace and West Ham who were plying their trade in the Championship not long ago.

That may seem harsh considering Everton’s limited resources when compared to divisional rivals – particularly Liverpool. The Toffees’ net spend from Martinez’s five windows at the helm is £34.5million; their Merseyside neighbours’ from the same time period is more than double at £85million. Barring one season of Luis Suarez-inspired brilliance, Liverpool are no closer to making it into the top four – which shows how difficult a challenge it truly is.

But it’s the lack of progress I find most concerning. Even if you offset Everton’s eleventh-place finish last term, their worst in nine years, with their 5th place finish the campaign previous, their best since 2008/09, that isn’t an improvement upon Moyes’ accomplishments.

It’s not particularly a step backwards either, but Martinez possesses a squad Moyes could only dream of and arguably Everton’s best since the title-winning days of the 1980s. Romelu Lukaku, John Stones, Seamus Coleman, James McCarthy and Ross Barkley are all coveted by Champions League clubs and capable of playing at that level, whilst Phil Jagielka, Leighton Baines, Tim Howard and Gareth Barry are all experienced top-six players.

Under Moyes, only Leighton Baines and Marouane Fellaini seemed destined for greater things and the Scot’s transfer budget was a shoestring in comparison. Martinez’s net spent has been on average £11.5million per season; his predecessor’s was around £1.5million per season. Even considering the ridiculous inflation of Premier League transfer fees over the last decade, that’s still a eight-fold difference.

Likewise, keeping this team together has required backing and sacrifice from the Everton board. They could have taken in near £40million from selling Stones in the summer, whilst fees for Ross Barkley and Romelu Lukaku would’ve been in the same ballpark. It is certainly commendable – and a testament to Martinez’s persuasion skills – that the Toffees held onto all of them in the summer, but what is the point in a starting XI of such great promise if Everton’s results aren’t moving forward?

Take a look at Tottenham Hotspur, for example. Mauricio Pochettino has improved the side immeasurably since his appointment in summer 2014, in terms of both results and performances, despite his net spend being just shy of £9million. They play exciting football and have geared the squad towards promoting young players – in fact, goalkeeper Michel Vorm is the only first-teamer aged 30 or over – and look set to finish above Everton for the second season in a row.

It’s very much the Toffees blueprint executed far more effectively, but the irony is that few Spurs players, perhaps excepting Hugo Lloris and Harry Kane, would have made it into Everton’s starting XI before the season kicked off. It’s a similar case with Crystal Palace and West Ham; although they boast a handful of exciting talents between them, Everton still have a stronger squad and a superior starting XI than both.

Of course, Martinez’ appointment was a long-term one that now won’t expire until 2019. If Everton qualify for the Champions League once or win a cup in that time period, most will mark it as a fantastic accomplishment on par with what he achieved with the Latics.

But unless there are signs of progression, Everton won’t be able to hold onto this team for much longer. Chelsea are almost certain to return for Stones next summer, Coleman is surely in the thoughts of any Champions League club looking for an attacking right-back, almost every Premier League team would happily take home-grown Barkley if he were available and PSG are already throwing flirtatious glances at Romelu Lukaku.

There needs to be a greater incentive to keep them at Goodison, because bumper contracts and Martinez’s persuasive abilities can only go so far. Right now, results aren’t providing one and overall, it feels like this team of such obvious promise are underachieving under a manager many regard as one of the best in the Premier League.

Of course, we’re just 14 games into the new season and much can change between now and May. They’re only six points off a Champions League spot, face Middlesbrough in the Capital One Cup quarter-finals on Tuesday evening and still have another shot of silverware in the FA Cup.

But the summary of Everton’s quarter-term report is quite simply; ‘must do better’
It's nonsense.

Palace, Leicester and West Ham have overtaken Everton! WTF is this based on - half a season? Let's see them have 5 top half finishes, never mind top 5/6 ones.

Apparently kicking Moyes' previous campaign record total of 65 points (that he had 11 years to 'accomplish') to the kerb first time of asking by Martinez...with Moyes' players...is "no improvement on Moyes".

Lastly he talks about not getting the best out of Lukaku (is he sniffing glue this feller?!), Stones and Barkley (who are all playing out of their skins).

"Must do better" - it's a conclusion he should apply to the tripe he's just tapped out on his own keyboard.
 
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...ah, but the referee didn't blow a few seconds earlier. The fact is we dropped two points in the 98th minute...only Everton...
Evertonians are not pessimistic; we are realists and well versed in Sod's Law

I think the line between realistic and pessimistic is pretty blurred when it comes to Everton...
 
I'm fairly satisfied thus far. We had a tough draw of fixtures and have played and scored some decent goals.
In truth, we are around where I thought we'd be but expect us much higher by New Year with some winnable games between now and then.
 
It's nonsense.

Palace, Leicester and West Ham have overtaken Everton! WTF is this based on - half a season? Let's see them have 5 top half finishes, never mind top 5/6 ones.

Apparently kicking Moyes' previous campaign record total of 65 points (that he had 11 years to 'accomplish') to the kerb first time of asking by Martinez...with Moyes' players...is "no improvement on Moyes".

Lastly he talks about not getting the best out of Lukaku (is he sniffing glue this feller?!), Stones and Barkley (who are all playing out of their skins).

"Must do better" - it's a conclusion he should apply to the tripe he's just tapped out on his own keyboard.
Listen mate, I think you need to calm down a little and stop taking any analysis of Martinez's performance as implied criticism. You are starting to come across as a little deranged in your fury at any perceived slight. Between you on one side and the Martinez haters on the other, both of you venomously hurling invective and spittle at each other via your keyboard, you're all acting irrationally.
I think you've all invested too much emotional energy into your fight/crusade...and are starting to make poor judgements as a result.
 
It's nonsense.

Palace, Leicester and West Ham have overtaken Everton! WTF is this based on - half a season? Let's see them have 5 top half finishes, never mind top 5/6 ones.

Apparently kicking Moyes' previous campaign record total of 65 points (that he had 11 years to 'accomplish') to the kerb first time of asking by Martinez...with Moyes' players...is "no improvement on Moyes".

Lastly he talks about not getting the best out of Lukaku (is he sniffing glue this feller?!), Stones and Barkley (who are all playing out of their skins).

"Must do better" - it's a conclusion he should apply to the tripe he's just tapped out on his own keyboard.

I wouldn't even say its nonsense. It's just a rather dull article with not much new to say opinion-wise.

Well, slightly nonsensical is the comparing us with Spurs and positing it as if it is in any way a fair comparison by hiding behind net spend figures. They spent almost 200m in the last 3 seasons. 200m!!! Our blueprint executed more effectively.....what guff. The writers basically hit on some idea they think sounds original and went with it. I can't imagine them realising the figures don't add up at all to back up the idea, until they hit the old net spend nugget and wedge it in there.
 
I have to admit there is a lot I found myself agreeing with in this article.

http://www.footballfancast.com/prem...everton-underachieving-under-roberto-martinez

Everton’s 3-3 draw with Bournemouth on Saturday was symptomatic of Roberto Martinez’ reign; thrilling football for the Premier League’s neutrals, yet an underwhelming result for a club that should be striving for better.

It’s hard not to like Martinez. He’s charmingly well-spoken, devoted to attacking football and recorded one of the greatest underdog achievements in FA Cup history upon lifting the title with Wigan Athletic in 2013.

But the Spaniard was appointed Goodison boss on the proviso that he could take Everton to the promised land of Champions League football after the Toffees’ decade of knocking on the door under David Moyes, and so far he has failed to deliver. In fact, they seem to be moving further back in the queue, now finding themselves ninth in the Premier League table and leapfrogged by clubs like Leicester City, Crystal Palace and West Ham who were plying their trade in the Championship not long ago.

That may seem harsh considering Everton’s limited resources when compared to divisional rivals – particularly Liverpool. The Toffees’ net spend from Martinez’s five windows at the helm is £34.5million; their Merseyside neighbours’ from the same time period is more than double at £85million. Barring one season of Luis Suarez-inspired brilliance, Liverpool are no closer to making it into the top four – which shows how difficult a challenge it truly is.

But it’s the lack of progress I find most concerning. Even if you offset Everton’s eleventh-place finish last term, their worst in nine years, with their 5th place finish the campaign previous, their best since 2008/09, that isn’t an improvement upon Moyes’ accomplishments.

It’s not particularly a step backwards either, but Martinez possesses a squad Moyes could only dream of and arguably Everton’s best since the title-winning days of the 1980s. Romelu Lukaku, John Stones, Seamus Coleman, James McCarthy and Ross Barkley are all coveted by Champions League clubs and capable of playing at that level, whilst Phil Jagielka, Leighton Baines, Tim Howard and Gareth Barry are all experienced top-six players.

Under Moyes, only Leighton Baines and Marouane Fellaini seemed destined for greater things and the Scot’s transfer budget was a shoestring in comparison. Martinez’s net spent has been on average £11.5million per season; his predecessor’s was around £1.5million per season. Even considering the ridiculous inflation of Premier League transfer fees over the last decade, that’s still a eight-fold difference.

Likewise, keeping this team together has required backing and sacrifice from the Everton board. They could have taken in near £40million from selling Stones in the summer, whilst fees for Ross Barkley and Romelu Lukaku would’ve been in the same ballpark. It is certainly commendable – and a testament to Martinez’s persuasion skills – that the Toffees held onto all of them in the summer, but what is the point in a starting XI of such great promise if Everton’s results aren’t moving forward?

Take a look at Tottenham Hotspur, for example. Mauricio Pochettino has improved the side immeasurably since his appointment in summer 2014, in terms of both results and performances, despite his net spend being just shy of £9million. They play exciting football and have geared the squad towards promoting young players – in fact, goalkeeper Michel Vorm is the only first-teamer aged 30 or over – and look set to finish above Everton for the second season in a row.

It’s very much the Toffees blueprint executed far more effectively, but the irony is that few Spurs players, perhaps excepting Hugo Lloris and Harry Kane, would have made it into Everton’s starting XI before the season kicked off. It’s a similar case with Crystal Palace and West Ham; although they boast a handful of exciting talents between them, Everton still have a stronger squad and a superior starting XI than both.

Of course, Martinez’ appointment was a long-term one that now won’t expire until 2019. If Everton qualify for the Champions League once or win a cup in that time period, most will mark it as a fantastic accomplishment on par with what he achieved with the Latics.

But unless there are signs of progression, Everton won’t be able to hold onto this team for much longer. Chelsea are almost certain to return for Stones next summer, Coleman is surely in the thoughts of any Champions League club looking for an attacking right-back, almost every Premier League team would happily take home-grown Barkley if he were available and PSG are already throwing flirtatious glances at Romelu Lukaku.

There needs to be a greater incentive to keep them at Goodison, because bumper contracts and Martinez’s persuasive abilities can only go so far. Right now, results aren’t providing one and overall, it feels like this team of such obvious promise are underachieving under a manager many regard as one of the best in the Premier League.

Of course, we’re just 14 games into the new season and much can change between now and May. They’re only six points off a Champions League spot, face Middlesbrough in the Capital One Cup quarter-finals on Tuesday evening and still have another shot of silverware in the FA Cup.

But the summary of Everton’s quarter-term report is quite simply; ‘must do better’
We are only 4 points behind Spurs with over half the season to go so the "look set to finish above Everton for the second season in a row" seems a bit hasty to state.

The key difference is that, despite us scoring more, they have a meaner defence. How much this is due to poor defensive coaching by Martinez plus a superior goalkeeper for Spurs, or how much is due to us rarely fielding 3, let alone4, of our first choice backline is yet to seen
 
Nonsense article

"Everton’s 3-3 draw with Bournemouth on Saturday was symptomatic of Roberto Martinez’ reign; thrilling football for the Premier League’s neutrals, yet an underwhelming result for a club that should be striving for better."

Nothing was thrilling about us last season. And on the opposite scale, the season before that was hardly underwhelming result wise.

His 2 seasons have been so contrasting I'm not sure there is any game that would be symptomatic of Martinez' reign
 
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I wouldn't even say its nonsense. It's just a rather dull article with not much new to say opinion-wise.

Well, slightly nonsensical is the comparing us with Spurs and positing it as if it is in any way a fair comparison by hiding behind net spend figures. They spent almost 200m in the last 3 seasons. 200m!!! Our blueprint executed more effectively.....what guff. The writers basically hit on some idea they think sounds original and went with it. I can't imagine them realising the figures don't add up at all to back up the idea, until they hit the old net spend nugget and wedge it in there.
It's a ridiculous article. The fellers a Charlton fan as far as I can make out. Now that doesn't in and of itself exclude him from providing cogent analysis, but I'm just wondering how clued up I'd be writing an over-arching piece on where Charlton Athletic and their manager stood in the grand scheme of things...probably not remotely.

Everton threw 2 points away on Saturday. I can guarantee you that piece wouldn't have seen the light of day if we'd hung on for the three points. That's how justified his "analysis" is.
 
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Listen mate, I think you need to calm down a little and stop taking any analysis of Martinez's performance as implied criticism. You are starting to come across as a little deranged in your fury at any perceived slight. Between you on one side and the Martinez haters on the other, both of you venomously hurling invective and spittle at each other via your keyboard, you're all acting irrationally.
I think you've all invested too much emotional energy into your fight/crusade...and are starting to make poor judgements as a result.
Ha Ha. I'm calm mate. I'm merely correcting some obvious tat in a tatty error strewn bundle of words that looks like they were thrown up in the air and published how they fell.
 
Both managers sound like nice, decent guys off pitch.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/30/middlesbrough-aitor-karanka-everton-roberto-martinez
Aitor Karanka met Roberto Martínez for the first time only a month ago but the pair have been behaving like old friends for two years now. In November 2013, when Karanka embarked on life as Middlesbrough’s manager, a letter was waiting for him on his training ground desk. It was handwritten and from his Everton counterpart and fellow Spaniard.

“On my first day Roberto sent me a letter to say welcome and congratulations,” said Karanka, whose second-placed Championship side are at home to Martínez’s Everton in a Capital One Cupquarter-final on Tuesday night. “Roberto is a person I have to thank a lot. He was the first one who I was speaking with when I arrived here. He helped me a lot because at the beginning it was difficult for me. I had a conversation with him and that conversation helped me to improve and settle in here. I have a really good relationship with him now. He is a good example for me and he is the mirror I am looking at.
...
Such admiration and gratitude will not prevent Karanka attempting to outdo his mentor in front of a packed Riverside. Quite apart from the obvious incentive, the former Real Madrid defender wants to win the game for Alastair Brownlee, the immensely popular, long-serving Boro commentator on BBC Radio Tees who was recently diagnosed with bowel cancer.

“In the last round at Manchester United we had extra motivation because of the Redcar steelworkers who were losing their jobs,” said Karanka. “Now we have extra motivation for our friend Ali. People here are really committed to this club. They can forget their problems when the team are winning and for this reason we are working hard.”
 
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