Roberto Martinez discussion

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

We've scored a lot of goals this season

We've also shipped a lot of goals to teams we really shouldn't be

That Sunderland side was honestly one of the worst Top Division opponents I've seen come to Goodison for years, and they not only put 2 past us but could have had another 2 or 3 on top of it

Barnsley put 3 past us, as did Bournemouth

We'll definitely concede against Boro, we just will. We'll need to score twice or even thrice just to have a mere chance of advancing. That put's a lot of pressure on the attacking players. Boro will know there's goals for them and that will inspire them to keep playing even if we score first

If we could just sort the defence out we'd be a fantastic side and competing on all fronts

For this reason, anyone calling for Martinez's head is jumping the gun IMO

Yes, something needs to be done about all the goals we're letting in, but it's almost churlish to demand him out considering the points we have on the board and the fact we're in a Cup Quarter Final

He should be given time to sort the problem out, because there definitely is a problem with our defence, and hopefully he finds a solution. And if he can't do it himself, hopefully he can put eyes on himself and reach out for help with it all

 

[Brownie]

On the real, remember when we used to just sit there and pass the ball around and not really look like scoring a goal until Steven Naismith did a strange little turn and found a way in there? Now we have two strikers on the pitch every game and Deulofeu with seven assists in seven.

 

[sportbillyblue]

Could besic do that?

I'd like to think so ... but doubt it.

I see him as being quite happy running around dishing out crunching tackles whilst cackling to himself.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Thanks for the reasoned response despite my unfair goading of you.

You're articulate so I'd like you to use that and outline a list of the potential implications if we get rid of Martinez v the potential benefits. A SWOT analysis if you like.

PS: he's barely been here two seasons, not three.

First off I'd just like to say I'm not calling for Martinez to go, my stance is always give a manager 3-4 seasons for a fair analysis so if we finish the season with signs of progression then another season is a fair deal, if we stand still then I think 3 seasons to make progress is enough to judge fairly whether that is happening.

Implications if Martinez were to go at the end of the season:

A lot of players have faith in him, we could easily see Lukaku Stones McCarthy not interested in playing for Everton under another manager.

The progress of young players could be hampered. Deulofeu Barkley Galloway may not have the faith of a new manager.

His exit could see the end of young world class talent coming to Everton. Lukaku Deulofeu Besic deals were all teed up by Martinez, could another manager offer the same proposition to attract these players?

Lastly he has shown in his time here that he is capable of winning any game on his day. Arsenal United and Chelsea have all been dismantled at Goodison in a manner never seen in the prem before. Tie that to his trophy winning pedigree at Wigan and getting rid of him may result in getting rid of the one manager who could inspire a series of individual performances to win a trophy.


Potential benefits if he were to go (obviously impossible to predict what a new manager would bring):

A new manager could bring in a new keeper and instantly improve the defensive solidity of the side.

A new manager may believe in the importance of a progressive midfielder who can dictate play and make Everton take the game to teams on the front foot rather than the counter.

A new manager may instruct the players to press without the ball and not excuse luxury defensive performances from the likes of Kone Barkley and Deulofeu.

A new manager may play players in their correct position meaning an even more influential Ross and the rehabilitation of Mirallas.

A new manager may create a team and squad that does not fall to pieces as soon as one vital cog is missing.

With Deulofeu Lukaku and Barkley in the side the offensive potential of this team is one of the best in the league. If we can even only adequately match the defensive aspect we'd be a proposition that could properly challenge for fourth considering the weakness of other teams in the league. Next year could be a crucial one as it may be Van Gasls last year and Chelsea will be outside the top 4. If we stay with Martinez and continue midtable the landscape could switch to see Mourinho back on top with Chelsea, Guardiola at Utd or City, and Wenger buying another world beater.

Pros and cons both ways but fans have to accept that in this league now you get a few seasons as a window for success before the vultures dismantle it. If this season is a dud this team will probably get dismantled. Does Martinez deserve to rebuild it if he couldn't get success out of world class talents like Lukaku Barkley Del and Stones?

 

[sportbillyblue]

We've scored a lot of goals this season

We've also shipped a lot of goals to teams we really shouldn't be

That Sunderland side was honestly one of the worst Top Division opponents I've seen come to Goodison for years, and they not only put 2 past us but could have had another 2 or 3 on top of it

Barnsley put 3 past us, as did Bournemouth

We'll definitely concede against Boro, we just will. We'll need to score twice or even thrice just to have a mere chance of advancing. That put's a lot of pressure on the attacking players. Boro will know there's goals for them and that will inspire them to keep playing even if we score first

If we could just sort the defence out we'd be a fantastic side and competing on all fronts

For this reason, anyone calling for Martinez's head is jumping the gun IMO

Yes, something needs to be done about all the goals we're letting in, but it's almost churlish to demand him out considering the points we have on the board and the fact we're in a Cup Quarter Final

He should be given time to sort the problem out, because there definitely is a problem with our defence, and hopefully he finds a solution. And if he can't do it himself, hopefully he can put eyes on himself and reach out for help with it all

This.

I wonder if he is too proud to ask for help. Sometimes he does seem to isolate himself.

We have some wonderful talent at the back, why those lads can't be coached into being a solid, cohesive unit confounds. Martinez has to sought it out.

 

[orly]

Don't take it. Tolerate this and the ale house forum will be next.

If they're speaking tosh, tell em. Don't lurk. You'll end up with Kipper mark 2.

 

[ijjysmith]

We've scored a lot of goals this season

We've also shipped a lot of goals to teams we really shouldn't be

That Sunderland side was honestly one of the worst Top Division opponents I've seen come to Goodison for years, and they not only put 2 past us but could have had another 2 or 3 on top of it

Barnsley put 3 past us, as did Bournemouth

We'll definitely concede against Boro, we just will. We'll need to score twice or even thrice just to have a mere chance of advancing. That put's a lot of pressure on the attacking players. Boro will know there's goals for them and that will inspire them to keep playing even if we score first

If we could just sort the defence out we'd be a fantastic side and competing on all fronts

For this reason, anyone calling for Martinez's head is jumping the gun IMO

Yes, something needs to be done about all the goals we're letting in, but it's almost churlish to demand him out considering the points we have on the board and the fact we're in a Cup Quarter Final

He should be given time to sort the problem out, because there definitely is a problem with our defence, and hopefully he finds a solution. And if he can't do it himself, hopefully he can put eyes on himself and reach out for help with it all

You can't know this mate.

 

[orly]

Got a plane booked to fly over Goodison against Palace. Banner will say El Coco OUT.

El Coco - Loco - Time to Go Go

 

[chicoazul]

First off I'd just like to say I'm not calling for Martinez to go, my stance is always give a manager 3-4 seasons for a fair analysis so if we finish the season with signs of progression then another season is a fair deal, if we stand still then I think 3 seasons to make progress is enough to judge fairly whether that is happening.

Implications if Martinez were to go at the end of the season:

A lot of players have faith in him, we could easily see Lukaku Stones McCarthy not interested in playing for Everton under another manager.

The progress of young players could be hampered. Deulofeu Barkley Galloway may not have the faith of a new manager.

His exit could see the end of young world class talent coming to Everton. Lukaku Deulofeu Besic deals were all teed up by Martinez, could another manager offer the same proposition to attract these players?

Lastly he has shown in his time here that he is capable of winning any game on his day. Arsenal United and Chelsea have all been dismantled at Goodison in a manner never seen in the prem before. Tie that to his trophy winning pedigree at Wigan and getting rid of him may result in getting rid of the one manager who could inspire a series of individual performances to win a trophy.


Potential benefits if he were to go (obviously impossible to predict what a new manager would bring):

A new manager could bring in a new keeper and instantly improve the defensive solidity of the side.

A new manager may believe in the importance of a progressive midfielder who can dictate play and make Everton take the game to teams on the front foot rather than the counter.

A new manager may instruct the players to press without the ball and not excuse luxury defensive performances from the likes of Kone Barkley and Deulofeu.

A new manager may play players in their correct position meaning an even more influential Ross and the rehabilitation of Mirallas.

A new manager may create a team and squad that does not fall to pieces as soon as one vital cog is missing.

With Deulofeu Lukaku and Barkley in the side the offensive potential of this team is one of the best in the league. If we can even only adequately match the defensive aspect we'd be a proposition that could properly challenge for fourth considering the weakness of other teams in the league. Next year could be a crucial one as it may be Van Gasls last year and Chelsea will be outside the top 4. If we stay with Martinez and continue midtable the landscape could switch to see Mourinho back on top with Chelsea, Guardiola at Utd or City, and Wenger buying another world beater.

Pros and cons both ways but fans have to accept that in this league now you get a few seasons as a window for success before the vultures dismantle it. If this season is a dud this team will probably get dismantled. Does Martinez deserve to rebuild it if he couldn't get success out of world class talents like Lukaku Barkley Del and Stones?

Very reasonably put, well in.

Another threat is the youth set up of the club and that worries me most. He has set up the youth teams in a certain way where they play to his ideals, have better development management from 19 to 22 and also have reasonable opportunity to progress into the first team.

This will enhance our medium to long term success with a bit of luck and in the absence of competitive capital being invested in the club takes a more important focus. We can't live season to season (not that I'm accusing you so saying that) and expect this sudden change into being a successful team.

Martinez has good strategy for the club, Moyes to his credit did too. We'd be screwed with a manager without this, or their ability to pick a good player within budget. So much so that what we're experiencing now would be considered glory days very quickly.

 

[TheOldLady]

I don't see the problem to be honest. He's an attacking manager and he likes to have attacking players on the pitch.

So your saying he can't defend and want him out of the club

What's your problem ffs

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

You can't know this mate.

I'll happily donate a tenner to the charity of your choice if we keep a clean sheet mate

 

[ijjysmith]

I'll happily donate a tenner to the charity of your choice if we keep a clean sheet mate

Don't get me wrong mate, I understand what you mean. But it's impossible to say we won't keep a clean sheet. Anything could happen.

However you've said it now, so a tenner to the @GrandOldTeam Alder Hey fund it is.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Don't get me wrong mate, I understand what you mean. But it's impossible to say we won't keep a clean sheet. Anything could happen.

However you've said it now, so a tenner to the @GrandOldTeam Alder Hey fund it is.

Done

 

[Verbal Kint]

Is it time for a defensive coach. Love all this attacking me but I'd love defenders to be a little more nasty for want of a better word.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Is it time for a defensive coach. Love all this attacking me but I'd love defenders to be a little more nasty for want of a better word.