Current Affairs Rail strikes

[Hickson9]

3% doesn't seem right at all. Is that being challenged? How should it be worked out? Linking to Inflation seems the most obvious, but perhaps that's a lazy take from me.

I would say that for the majority in the private sector, people need to move company in order to achieve a pay rise. I'm not sure they're so forthcoming in the current climate.

It's the most obvious take yes, or at least close to inflation.

The 3% was the cap the Tories put it place, after 0% last year as well.

I'm in the FDA union (senior managers in the Civil Service), which will probably never go on strike - aside from the Fast Streamers (graduate scheme) who are balloting now as their pay only starts on £28K, which has gone up from £27K in 2012...

The PCS (more junior grades) have gone on strike however, which will hopefully have an impact on the collective pay offer.

 

[Jebus_lives]

@Bruce Wayne , when you say productivity, do you mean income/profit? Wages are linked to profit and loss, as are redundancies. Productivity as a metric is kind of immeasurable in most industries, no?

It's a problem of solely using output as a measure of productivity. And productivity as the measure for determining value.

Take the NHS as an example. The NHS has more staff and greater funding than pre pandemic but has treated fewer patients in 2022 than it did across the same period in 2019.

 

[Nightman]

It's the most obvious take yes, or at least close to inflation.

The 3% was the cap the Tories put it place, after 0% last year as well.

I'm in the FDA union (senior managers in the Civil Service), which will probably never go on strike - aside from the Fast Streamers (graduate scheme) who are balloting now as their pay only starts on £28K, which has gone up from £27K in 2012...

The PCS (more junior grades) have gone on strike however, which will hopefully have an impact on the collective pay offer.

That's horrific and mirrors other industries who are striking. I read the other day that nurses and midwives, on average have had £4k of pay increases since 2011. That's an average of an 11% pay increase in 11 years. That is not right and people have rightly had enough.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

@Bruce Wayne , when you say productivity, do you mean income/profit? Wages are linked to profit and loss, as are redundancies. Productivity as a metric is kind of immeasurable in most industries, no?

Well nurses and rail staff are out today. Rail traffic volumes are down enormously since 2019, which is surely a factor? As for nurses, rest assured that my wife has numerous quantitative targets she has to meet (and which the commissioners demand).

I don't think he ever answered the question as to why I should receive a massive pay cut (pay offer was just a 3%, increase), as a civil servant on Whitehall whose work can't be linked to income/profit and for which there is no usable metric of productivity at a collective level.

And at a time when pay increases in the private sector are far greater, i.e. public sector workers are being told to bear a hugely disproportionate part of the pain.

And all of that after an entire decade of my pay being eroded.

@Bruce Wayne Let's hear your answer. Why should my family's living standards decline far more than the average?

Perhaps I didn't answer because I'm not paid while I'm on GOT, which is perhaps not the case in senior civil service roles

 

[Nightman]

It's a problem of solely using output as a measure of productivity. And productivity as the measure for determining value.

Take the NHS as an example. The NHS has more staff and greater funding than pre pandemic but has treated fewer patients in 2022 than it did across the same period in 2019.

That's as interesting as it is suprising.

So when Sunak says they are going to hire thousands more doctors and nurses to fix the NHS, it sounds like that's not the problem to fix?

 

[larrygobfiend]

Always thought nurses were underpaid.

They do the training to degree level, they work the unsociable hours and they have to deal with harrowing situations.

Pay them what they deserve.

 

[Charro]

Perhaps something to keep in mind when discussing nurses at the moment. It's possible that any of those top 5 factors (that were derived at from studies in America, UK, Australia, Canada, and France so are pretty robust and universal) have been discussed by the nurses union, so I'm happy to be pointed in that direction... *this isn't to say that I don't think nurses are underpaid btw, merely that paying them more isn't going to fix the problem.

Again, the strike is to do with more than pay. Please stop ignoring this. You sound like one of them, Bruce.

 

[Nightman]

Perhaps I didn't answer because I'm not paid while I'm on GOT, which is perhaps not the case in senior civil service roles

Mate. ?

 

[larrygobfiend]

If the government want to make savings, maybe consider restructuring jobs in county councils. I’ve spoken to quite a few people who’ve admitted working there is an absolute cakewalk.

 

[Hickson9]

Well nurses and rail staff are out today. Rail traffic volumes are down enormously since 2019, which is surely a factor? As for nurses, rest assured that my wife has numerous quantitative targets she has to meet (and which the commissioners demand).

Perhaps I didn't answer because I'm not paid while I'm on GOT, which is perhaps not the case in senior civil service roles

Funny to be fair.

You're still dodging the question of course.

 

[woomy]

That's as interesting as it is suprising.

So when Sunak says they are going to hire thousands more doctors and nurses to fix the NHS, it sounds like that's not the problem to fix?

As much as we do need more staff. The problems like much deeper.
Shift patterns for one.
But the real issue is just how much money is wasted.
Managers who are not needed.
Contractors, who charge the earth. stock and supplies bought at vastly inflated prices, because suppliers see NHS and rub their hands together.
Lack of social care.
Lack of physical health care for mental health patients.
Lack of mental health care for physical health patients
Etc etc etc.
No meaningful attempts at retention incentives.
Trusts who do the bear minimum for staff.
Etc etc etc again

The NHS is broken. But is is far more than lack of nurses and dr's.

 

[Nightman]

If the government want to make savings, maybe consider restructuring jobs in county councils. I’ve spoken to quite a few people who’ve admitted working there is an absolute cakewalk.

Maybe that depends on the council and department, mate. Some of my family work with the council from the private sector (at a massive cost btw) because the council are massively under-resourced and stretched to breaking point.

 

[Jebus_lives]

That's as interesting as it is suprising.

So when Sunak says they are going to hire thousands more doctors and nurses to fix the NHS, it sounds like that's not the problem to fix?

Well it's complicated.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Funny to be fair.

You're still dodging the question of course.

My income is set to be about 70% of what it was last year, and that's before taking into account the pounding the markets have taken, which affects my pension and hedging. Who do I complain to about that?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Again, the strike is to do with more than pay. Please stop ignoring this. You sound like one of them, Bruce.

I've probably missed where the nurses union has tackled the things in the upper bit of that graph mate. Feel free to link me up.