It always is, which is why train staff are paid so well. That hefty salary just happens to be a happy byproduct of the constant strikes over the years.
Current Affairs Rail strikes
- Thread starter Diogenes the Cynic
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That's the question though, "why" should train staff get a 5% pay rise? Have you become 5% more productive or will that 5% just be loaded onto the (already expensive) ticket prices of consumers and lead to stagflation in the economy? For the good of the economy, wage increases have to come about due to rises in productivity, and train travel is significantly lower than 2019 levels so it's impossible to make that case.
larrygobfiend
Player Valuation: £40m
They’ve had a real term pay cut because of inflation and energy price hikes etc, but you already knew that.
I do agree that drivers already earn enough, but it’s not only about them. It’s the workers at the lower end of the pay scale that will need the pay rises.
I get the feeling you’re quite comfortable financially and you’re just a bit “butt hurt” because your Christmas has been slightly inconvenienced.
Tbh, I suspect when things shake down, I'll earn less this year than the average RMT member, but that's not really the point. I'm not looking at this from my perspective but the wider perspective. A few things are pretty much certain:
- Basic supply and demand says that if wages go up to match temporary inflation then the inflation will become permanent. That might be fine for those who got the pay rise, but it's not so good for those that didn't. For instance, I mentioned earlier about small businesses who often have any credit secured on their houses, who will struggle not only due to falling demand but also rising interest rates on their mortgage. Maybe that's okay? It certainly seems like a dog eat dog narrative at play here and as long as whatever category of worker is okay it doesn't matter about the rest.
- Economically, productivity growth has been rubbish in the UK for well over a decade. These strikes aren't going to change that because many workers/unions are opposing any real change (as well as wanting big pay rises)
- If we get baked in high inflation alongside flatlining productivity, we will inevitably get stagflation, which is much worse than a recession.
Is stagflation coming to the UK?- Times Money Mentor
Stagflation happens when a mixture of high inflation and low growth create a perfect storm for a miserable economy. Is the UK at risk now? Find out more.
www.thetimes.co.uk
So my personal professional circumstances don't really come into this (even though, yes, I negotiate my terms and conditions with each contract I get, and going on strike means I don't work, so it's not a tactic I'm supportive of), but rather looking at things from a wider economic perspective.
Had a taxi driver complaining to me about the strikes, yesterday. Said he couldn’t believe that train drivers on over £80k a year were going on strike.
Then told me that Rishi has announced he’s sending all the immigrants back which will save us £6billion a day, which can be used to pay the NHS better wages.
Absolute balloonhead.
Then told me that Rishi has announced he’s sending all the immigrants back which will save us £6billion a day, which can be used to pay the NHS better wages.
Absolute balloonhead.
Well we havnt had anything for three years , which means as you know we are not even standing still,
why the link between are wage and the fares ,
If that were true fares would have been static instead as you know
the fares have gone up.
The Company has made profits,
The directors pay has gone up , Shareholders have been payed a dividend. and have done every year.
And plenty of others in the offices, who never see a passenger, have seen there wages go up.
People assume its just us lot that actually work with the public as the only ones that get a wage out of the rail
But there is a Hugh clerical side to it, some of the jobs , working in strategy ect are really highly paid , they get grouped in the wage bill with us.
why do they and shareholders, directors ect deserve a pay rise, but not us who earn it?
We to low down the class system for you mate.
Plus while half the country stayed at home getting furlong pay for sitting on there arse, we like most if the others on strike, postman, nurses, fireman, got on with keeping things going.
Paying are taxes ect.
Now because they were holed up nice and safe at home we are now told the figures are down you pay the price .
Nothing to do with hundreds of services these companies have done away with is it?
One has cut its services by a third in the new timetable, still get the
same money from the treasury though, but thats are fault as well more than likely.
We didn't get thousands threw at us from the government magic money tree.
Likes of you were quite happy to see carpet shops and the like get bailed out for doing nothing, and by the way fiddle it something rotten,
how many billions will that end up Costing the country?
Bet loads of you mates got there benefits , (yes thats what they were , just like some poor soul out of work get, just dressed up in a different name so as not to upset the poor things imagine having to take benifits like those nasty plebs and immagrants),
I didnt begrudge them it by the way , because i see people as more than a figure of a graph, a figure to be played around with to suit an agenda.
But now it's time to pay that sum of money back we are told the cost of it , to us is
your standard of living.
we got fk all out of it, not one penny from any scheme.
But god forbid the work class folks want a bit of help,
Then its we can't afford it,
unless you make yourself poorer,watch your terms go to cock ,and your workmates go out the door.
. They are not replacing staff either , so we have to take up the slack , so why don't we deserve some of the savings they are making we are doing the extra work.
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Or as I said months ago; One man's wages rise is another man's price rise - Harold Wilson 1971.Tbh, I suspect when things shake down, I'll earn less this year than the average RMT member, but that's not really the point. I'm not looking at this from my perspective but the wider perspective. A few things are pretty much certain:
- Basic supply and demand says that if wages go up to match temporary inflation then the inflation will become permanent. That might be fine for those who got the pay rise, but it's not so good for those that didn't. For instance, I mentioned earlier about small businesses who often have any credit secured on their houses, who will struggle not only due to falling demand but also rising interest rates on their mortgage. Maybe that's okay? It certainly seems like a dog eat dog narrative at play here and as long as whatever category of worker is okay it doesn't matter about the rest.
- Economically, productivity growth has been rubbish in the UK for well over a decade. These strikes aren't going to change that because many workers/unions are opposing any real change (as well as wanting big pay rises)
- If we get baked in high inflation alongside flatlining productivity, we will inevitably get stagflation, which is much worse than a recession.
Is stagflation coming to the UK?- Times Money Mentor
Stagflation happens when a mixture of high inflation and low growth create a perfect storm for a miserable economy. Is the UK at risk now? Find out more.
So my personal professional circumstances don't really come into this (even though, yes, I negotiate my terms and conditions with each contract I get, and going on strike means I don't work, so it's not a tactic I'm supportive of), but rather looking at things from a wider economic perspective.
I remember that decade well...all that went with it and all that came after it.
Crisis, what crisis?
Thatcher.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.
There's a lot there mate. I can't speak for all rail companies, but my local operator is First Group, and they only reintroduced their dividend in the most recent financial year and that was only because the division (which runs buses and stuff all over the world) sold off a few things so returned that money to shareholders. I know across the industry as a whole, revenue is down around £500 million this year compared to 2019, with an awful lot fewer passengers travelling by train. This is likely to be in large part due to the increase in working from home. This reduction in passenger volume might also explain why some services have been cut, but that's not something I've done any research into.
There's no need to bring class into it either. My parents were a car mechanic and a nurse respectively, and I'm the only one in our immediate family that has ever gone to university. Believe it or not, they're far more right wing than I am, but my dad ran his own workshop so I guess he never had the luxury of going on strike (he also grew up in the UK car industry, which was destroyed by the unions so that perhaps also flavours his mindset).
It's going to come from somewhere, isn't it? If it's a public service it will come either from tax rises or service cuts, and if it's a private service (even one that's practically nationalised, like the railways), then it'll come from price rises as much as can be agreed with the regulator and service cuts. It's not helped by the fact that passenger numbers, and therefore income, has plummeted this year with so many more people choosing to work from home rather than shell out thousands on a season ticket. There are some realities to be faced unfortunately.
Bruce@
I bought class into it because, the country as a whole was happy to take benifits, ( furlough payments in posh circle's ? )
But now it's a different set of workers who need help we are told , we have to work under a different set of rules
Can't afford it .
If you want a rise you pay for it ect
Why we are not self employed ect,
that fits into the daily mail, tory narrative of what constitutes valuable citizen of this country.and vote for mostly the party that isn't in power.
So it leaves me to the conclusion it's a class issue.
why does one set deserve help with getting through hard times but not another, if not a class issue or perception of it as I and others are more than likely more comfortable than some in the other set of workers.
I see you as a lycra glad version of Bono on this forum, happy to take up a cause, and shout it from the rooftops,
But when it comes to it ,
you are quick to moan when anything dares interrupt your life.
You more than likely see me as a old fella with a whippet , donkey jacket , and a membership for the local working mans club
Sorry if I upset you in throwing class in ,
I havnt a clue about your background so it was a low shot.
Sure if we met up in a independent coffee shop in London drinking coffee, that was sourced in a Colombian virgins belly button for
£15 a sip, we would get on fine and have a laugh in really life ?
I bought class into it because, the country as a whole was happy to take benifits, ( furlough payments in posh circle's ? )
But now it's a different set of workers who need help we are told , we have to work under a different set of rules
Can't afford it .
If you want a rise you pay for it ect
Why we are not self employed ect,
that fits into the daily mail, tory narrative of what constitutes valuable citizen of this country.and vote for mostly the party that isn't in power.
So it leaves me to the conclusion it's a class issue.
why does one set deserve help with getting through hard times but not another, if not a class issue or perception of it as I and others are more than likely more comfortable than some in the other set of workers.
I see you as a lycra glad version of Bono on this forum, happy to take up a cause, and shout it from the rooftops,
But when it comes to it ,
you are quick to moan when anything dares interrupt your life.
You more than likely see me as a old fella with a whippet , donkey jacket , and a membership for the local working mans club
Sorry if I upset you in throwing class in ,
I havnt a clue about your background so it was a low shot.
Sure if we met up in a independent coffee shop in London drinking coffee, that was sourced in a Colombian virgins belly button for
£15 a sip, we would get on fine and have a laugh in really life ?
Ooofff ?
It would be my treat mate (and we have a huge Latino community round here so the Colombian ladies are indeed a sight to behold, even if I can't vouch for their belly button fluff)
I don't drink coffee mate
but would be happy to sit there and watch you enjoy yours
while we look at the Colombian ladies who are certainly fine.
And very unpalatable ones too, no matter who is in Government, Labour or Tory.
One won't face them, one can't face them...you, the reader - or any reader will decide which applies to who(m?) based on their political views.
There is no magic quick fix.
The whole world is in for another decade(+) of same but different crap - (after all, 50yrs on, it's a different world now)
efcfanwirral
Player Valuation: £30m
Guessing
Surely he would be benefitting from the strikes?
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