Current Affairs Race wars, neo-nazis and other unpleasantness

[NathDogg]

As deserved as some sentences will be, it leaves an unnerving feeling around inconsistency/state agenda.

Someone launched a brick, smashing a window at a restaurant nearby the other month. It was a massive, oval shaped window. Costly. Restaurant have it on CCTV - police never bothered to go out. "Here's your insurance number".

Suspect the 30 month type headlines will be released in a few months after the rushed punishment to give headline deterrent have served their purpose.

New government, new standards for sentencing/investigation perhaps.

Hoping Labour can drive some improvement into the ways of working for our police forces. The incident you mention should not be a crime number job for the police.

The high profile nature of the riots will of course affect the sentence, and is absolutely needed as a deterrent imo, but I agree we also need consistency.

 

[tsubaki]

Meanwhile, here is a report on the views of a man whose decisions in terms of planning applications were in no way corrupt:

Robert Jenrick criticised for saying people shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ should be arrested

Critics say Tory leadership candidate’s comments around far-right protests ‘nasty divisive rhetoric’

www.theguardian.com

I say Glory be to God in the highest… every day, should I be arrested?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

It needed doing, it is a huge deterrent and also makes Starmer look authoritative - if these were one-off incidents with different reasons the sentences would be far leaner

To be fair it’d have been probably easier to solve that crime if the offender videoed it and put it on their own social media, which is what happened in a load of these cases .

Also I think it’s crap if a crime gets filed away and they’ve done nothing to investigate it . However there has to be line between damage and riot , it’s obvious one will be investigated with more resources than the other . It’s why , I suppose a higher percentage of murderers get arrested than shoplifters. The more serious the crime the more serious the response and resources . This wasn’t 3 drunken beauts after a night out kicking off it was a riot culminating in attacks on police , property and ultimately the rule of law . Just like the rioters in 2011 got hammered so will these

End of the day - crime is crime.

Similar crimes should receive similar attention and sentences.

Someone smashed my car a few years back. I gave footage to the police - they give me an insurance number.

If the same guy smashed my car in Southport during riots, he gets 30 months?

I think that’s a bit of a false equivalence really, and calling locking up people who have effectively been involved in pogroms a state agenda is a bad take.

Trying to burn down a hotel with migrants inside, cornering a random black man to attack, throwing acid on a Muslim woman, kicking in Muslim families doors…

Bit of a trend there - if there’s an anti-Nazi state agenda, then I’d say that’s good agenda to have.

Well, no.

The sentences handed out so far are for none of them.

All those would/should be more.

The very fact you're comparing them reaffirms my very simple point.

Law should be without prejudice or agenda.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

New government, new standards for sentencing/investigation perhaps.

Hoping Labour can drive some improvement into the ways of working for our police forces. The incident you mention should not be a crime number job for the police.

The high profile nature of the riots will of course affect the sentence, and is absolutely needed as a deterrent imo, but I agree we also need consistency.

Nah mate - that new government have just been releasing prisoners early

 

[TrachyBlue]

I have been "invited" to a counter protest in Bristol tonight. I initially thought it would be a good idea - then remembered what happened last time I went on a similar thing many years ago
I am assuming if a counter protester gets involved in a kick off with a right-wing demonstrator he/she is just as likely to end up in court tomorrow.

I was at the Welling march against the BNP in '93, when the police kettled us and charged down a hill on horseback. One of the scariest days of my life.

 

[Damo_1878]

As deserved as some sentences will be, it leaves an unnerving feeling around inconsistency/state agenda.

Someone launched a brick, smashing a window at a restaurant nearby the other month. It was a massive, oval shaped window. Costly. Restaurant have it on CCTV - police never bothered to go out. "Here's your insurance number".

Suspect the 30 month type headlines will be released in a few months after the rushed punishment to give headline deterrent have served their purpose.

Stupid idiots

Stay on high alert, Starmer tells emergency meeting on riots

Sir Keir Starmer is understood to have told Cobra that there is "no doubt" rapid sentencing has acted as a deterrent to further disorder.

www.bbc.co.uk

To be honest @GrandOldTeam the deterrent effect is always there already under the Public Order Act 1986. The punishment for "violent disorder" is up to 5 YEARS and for "riot" is up to 10 YEARS

This is basically the criminal justice system doing what it does. It's reasserting a deterrent effect

Law is doing what the law does

 

[COYBL25]

I have been "invited" to a counter protest in Bristol tonight. I initially thought it would be a good idea - then remembered what happened last time I went on a similar thing many years ago
I am assuming if a counter protester gets involved in a kick off with a right-wing demonstrator he/she is just as likely to end up in court tomorrow.

I`d say there`s a very good chance mate, especially with all the allegations of two tier policing flying around.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

End of the day - crime is crime.

Similar crimes should receive similar attention and sentences.

Someone smashed my car a few years back. I gave footage to the police - they give me an insurance number.

If the same guy smashed my car in Southport during riots, he gets 30 months?



Well, no.

The sentences handed out so far are for none of them.

All those would/should be more.

The very fact you're comparing them reaffirms my very simple point.

Law should be without prejudice or agenda.

I don't agree. These guys were knowingly attending hate protests and smashing the place up - worse than an off-the-cuff incident for me

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I`d say there`s a very good chance mate, especially with all the allegations of two tier policing flying around.

Good point

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Nah mate - that new government have just been releasing prisoners early

Previous government left them with no choice - the figures are startling

 

[ChesterBlue]

End of the day - crime is crime.

Similar crimes should receive similar attention and sentences.

Someone smashed my car a few years back. I gave footage to the police - they give me an insurance number.

If the same guy smashed my car in Southport during riots, he gets 30 months?



Well, no.

The sentences handed out so far are for none of them.

All those would/should be more.

The very fact you're comparing them reaffirms my very simple point.

Law should be without prejudice or agenda.

I’m sorry mate, but no. Context is incredibly important in the law too.

The fact is there’s a difference between one individual knobhead throwing a brick, and a gang of people all throwing bricks in riots that are specifically targeting non-white people.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Stupid idiots

Stay on high alert, Starmer tells emergency meeting on riots

Sir Keir Starmer is understood to have told Cobra that there is "no doubt" rapid sentencing has acted as a deterrent to further disorder.

www.bbc.co.uk

View attachment 267995


To be honest @GrandOldTeam the deterrent effect is always there already under the Public Order Act 1986. The punishment for "violent disorder" is up to 5 YEARS and for "riot" is up to 10 YEARS

This is basically the criminal justice system doing what it does. It's reasserting a deterrent effect

Law is doing what the law does

You'll always find inconsistencies with sentencing - if you look hard enough.

But nobody should feel comfortable with the state saying "right, we're going to hammer these with harsher sentences because it's in our own interest" - weeks after releasing violent criminals early.

They'll all end up out "early" because their appeal will highlight that IMO.

 

[Harryflashman]

End of the day - crime is crime.

Similar crimes should receive similar attention and sentences.

Someone smashed my car a few years back. I gave footage to the police - they give me an insurance number.

If the same guy smashed my car in Southport during riots, he gets 30 months?



Well, no.

The sentences handed out so far are for none of them.

All those would/should be more.

The very fact you're comparing them reaffirms my very simple point.

Law should be without prejudice or agenda.

Well was the bloke who smashed your car part of a riot /violent disorder ? If so there two different crimes unless you’re suggesting if a murderer who smashes a car during the crime means everyone gets life ?

The bloke was charged and pleaded guilty to violence disorder not to criminal damage , it’s a different offence . Same as the people looting shops won’t I imagine get a ticket for shoplifting, doesn’t feel like the things are at odds .

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I’m sorry mate, but no. Context is incredibly important in the law too.

The fact is there’s a difference between one individual knobhead throwing a brick, and a gang of people all throwing bricks in riots that are specifically targeting non-white people.

It is indeed.

And we don't know the specific incidents.

You're saying it's for attempted murder/attempting to set fire to a building. Evidently, it's not.

I'm comparing to incidents I can recall of violent or criminal damage. The details will come out I'm sure.

 

[COYBL25]

Dave is, as part of his new left wing group.

You mean the British National Socialist Workers Party ?