Phil Jagielka

[DualityNSNO]

Reluctantly I think you are correct. Unfortunately for us Martinez seems very close to Jagielka and I don't think would ever willingly drop him. Often though the bets formations/combinations are stumbled upon. When he went off yesterday we looked at our most solid. Fumes Mori seems to have better distribution than him and is better aerially.

A lot of Evertonians make me laugh. I saw Toffee TV do a combined 11 show for the Redmen tv (Liverpool) and some manc channel. In Both their teams they said Stones/Jagielka. It was their logic that baffled me though when they said "they come as a partnership, and therefore are more than their individual sums".

The problem is Stones and Jagielka have never looked right as a partnership. They don't seem to compliment each other. Worryingly Jagielka seems to struggle to find partnerships with a number of players. He never did with Heitinga, struggled with Distin and now with Stones. Maybe we need to consider Jagielka may be the issue? (I remember in the Heitinga days I always felt he and Distin were the best partnership we had even if Jagielka was a superior defender).

Stones and Fumes Mori look more comfortable together. I think this injury could be a blessing. I worry about the lack of experience we have in the team being the only thing I can say Jagielka would bring. In many ways is remains a centre half with fantastic attributes. He throws his body on the line, is great and blocks and man marking a player but they are not attributes we get tested on anymore. Sides have worked us out and throw balls into the box. We then have a goalkeeper who won't come for anything, a 21 year old cultured centre half and Jagielka who is not the most dominant in the air. Something has to give.

This really, they just worked better together - Distin was the pacey defender who could fix mistakes or deal with the fast players, Heitinga was a really good man-marker and could read the game better. I still don't know why he got dropped despite winning player of the year and all that...

 

[daz4matty]

Personally think that along with lukaku, he was the one player who we could least afford to lose through injury. Those saying it's ok cos we've got mori, off the back of a couple of half decent performances are crackers in my opinion. Has been a consistent leader in a very inexperienced defence this season and was player of the year last season. Could be proved wrong and we excel without him but I very much doubt it

Yeah spot on he has been baby sitting a lot this season and has been the glue in a lot of good earlier defensive performances.
He will be missed and if we lose another cb we will be in trouble

 

[DualityNSNO]

He's been blowing hot and cold.. mainly cold since he went to the World cup in 2014 when he had a poor tournament anyway. Never been the same since but still our best defender when he's in form.

He had the media's spotlight for everything that happened though, which can't really do a player any good. He did alright and whenever someone else made a mistake (like when Gerrard put Suarez through IIRC) - he was made out to be the villain for not being fast enough to react to someone else doing something unexpectedly stupid.

 

[bignev23]

He had the media's spotlight for everything that happened though, which can't really do a player any good. He did alright and whenever someone else made a mistake (like when Gerrard put Suarez through IIRC) - he was made out to be the villain for not being fast enough to react to someone else doing something unexpectedly stupid.

Yeh I'm not disagreeing with that like just saying he's been up and down since then when he seemed to me to be a lot more consistent before.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Yeh I'm not disagreeing with that like just saying he's been up and down since then when he seemed to me to be a lot more consistent before.

Aye I get you, agreed about that as well, just couldn't stand all the blaming that happened to him at that world cup...

 

[bignev23]

Aye I get you, agreed about that as well, just couldn't stand all the blaming that happened to him at that world cup...

It was over the top, another reason I would rather none of our players where selected for them.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Bad news for Jags, he takes time to get top form back after an injury

 

[TimmyOTool]

Who will be captain? Howard took the armband when jags went off but with he possibly being dropped who would it be?

 

[catcherintherye]

Mate, with respect, this is at best a very bizarre post.

How don't they compliment each other? One a 'stopper' who puts his body on the line, old-school if you like. Almost Vidic-like. Stones is more Ferdinand like, more graceful but not as good a defender (no-one seems to be noting that Stones watched Giroud slowly leave him for the opening goal, failing to track him).

In short, they've shown they are a very good blend of talent, Jagielka and Stones.

We conceded only 39 goals in Martinez's first season. Jagielka and Distin. 40 goals conceded for Moyes final 2 seasons.
If that's not the definition of a mean defence and a good partnership, I dont know what is.

Based on the game against Arsenal? I'd agree, don't get me wrong, but it's hardly a decent gauge of where they are at as a partnership.

I don't think we should be fearing Jagielka's absence, but at the same time to dismiss his good form over the last 12 months and raise concerns with his ability to form effective partnerships is, as stated above, bizarre.

I can completely understand what you are saying. I suppose what I see from watching them though is that we don't like comfortable. I am also not sure as a partnership Stones and Jagielka look capable of helping us stop leaking goals from crosses.

Jagielka is a fantastic stopper, but as I indicated I don't think he's as dominant in the air as a Vidic. I think he excels in blocks and tackled but maybe his spring isn't as strong as it once was. Before when he played with Distin/Lescott we got away with it but we are being exposed now.

I appreciate on a number basis Distin and Jagielka's are very good. I would say that was down to them being two excellent individual centre halves as opposed to a great partnership. I always felt watching them they both looked after their own game and between them neither got done.

It is hard to describe what makes a good partnership but normally you can just see it on the pitch. Thats what I saw with Distin and Heitinga. Weird and Stubbs were the same they easily covered each other. I've played that position too and there were people I enjoyed playing with and other centre backs who I just hated playing alongside.

On paper Stones and Jagielka should work but I am not sure it ever looks like it does. Yes it is early days with Mori and Stones but early signs are they just looked more naturally suited to one another. I think Mori will thrive on heading balls which will help Stones. I also think he will be a bit more comfortable on the ball than Jagielka is.

I think Jagielka is now a bit caught between schools. His reading of the game has come on and is what I'd call a fantastic "ground defender". He is quick, reads the game well, tackles and blocks brilliantly and can mark a forward out of the game. At present though I think he's lost a bit of spring and doesn't attack the ball well enough off crosses. I think he would be a perfect fit alongside a big oik playing for a Moyes type team. This is how he looked best next to Lescott, where he wasn't pressured enough aerielly.

I could well be wrong on Mori and Stones. It's not good losing Jagielka but we have to change something defensively. Martinez seems quite cautious to do this so it being forced upon him is no bad thing. I like Mori from what I've seen of him and I'm looking forward to see if he can form a partnership with Stones.

 

[Furey1878]

Lets see how affected we are when Mori or Stones gets injured and we are playing Barry or Hibbert at CB.

SMFH

You'd hope Galloway or Browning would get the nod at CB should Stones or Mori get injured.

It's defo be Barry, though.

 

[Furey1878]

At least it's an oppurtunity for Mori, I've liked the look of him so far so hopefully he can settle into the league.

 

[Nealroy]

I can completely understand what you are saying. I suppose what I see from watching them though is that we don't like comfortable. I am also not sure as a partnership Stones and Jagielka look capable of helping us stop leaking goals from crosses.

Jagielka is a fantastic stopper, but as I indicated I don't think he's as dominant in the air as a Vidic. I think he excels in blocks and tackled but maybe his spring isn't as strong as it once was. Before when he played with Distin/Lescott we got away with it but we are being exposed now.

I appreciate on a number basis Distin and Jagielka's are very good. I would say that was down to them being two excellent individual centre halves as opposed to a great partnership. I always felt watching them they both looked after their own game and between them neither got done.

It is hard to describe what makes a good partnership but normally you can just see it on the pitch. Thats what I saw with Distin and Heitinga. Weird and Stubbs were the same they easily covered each other. I've played that position too and there were people I enjoyed playing with and other centre backs who I just hated playing alongside.

On paper Stones and Jagielka should work but I am not sure it ever looks like it does. Yes it is early days with Mori and Stones but early signs are they just looked more naturally suited to one another. I think Mori will thrive on heading balls which will help Stones. I also think he will be a bit more comfortable on the ball than Jagielka is.

I think Jagielka is now a bit caught between schools. His reading of the game has come on and is what I'd call a fantastic "ground defender". He is quick, reads the game well, tackles and blocks brilliantly and can mark a forward out of the game. At present though I think he's lost a bit of spring and doesn't attack the ball well enough off crosses. I think he would be a perfect fit alongside a big oik playing for a Moyes type team. This is how he looked best next to Lescott, where he wasn't pressured enough aerielly.

I could well be wrong on Mori and Stones. It's not good losing Jagielka but we have to change something defensively. Martinez seems quite cautious to do this so it being forced upon him is no bad thing. I like Mori from what I've seen of him and I'm looking forward to see if he can form a partnership with Stones.

I wonder how much having a left footed player in there makes a difference to a partnership? As you say, Jags worked brilliantly with Lescott. Funes Mori seems to have given a certain balance back there - as well as what he has bought in the air and covering pace. Difficult to say since it's such early days for him but hopefully he'll be able to form decent partnerships with Stones and Jags.

 

[LinekersLegs]

He's boss and I for one will miss him.

 

[Toffeelover]

Out till Xmas!! Oh boy. If there are any other injuries to CB, then Browning or Galloway will have to step up.

 

[mkrudden]

I can completely understand what you are saying. I suppose what I see from watching them though is that we don't like comfortable. I am also not sure as a partnership Stones and Jagielka look capable of helping us stop leaking goals from crosses.

Jagielka is a fantastic stopper, but as I indicated I don't think he's as dominant in the air as a Vidic. I think he excels in blocks and tackled but maybe his spring isn't as strong as it once was. Before when he played with Distin/Lescott we got away with it but we are being exposed now.

I appreciate on a number basis Distin and Jagielka's are very good. I would say that was down to them being two excellent individual centre halves as opposed to a great partnership. I always felt watching them they both looked after their own game and between them neither got done.

It is hard to describe what makes a good partnership but normally you can just see it on the pitch. Thats what I saw with Distin and Heitinga. Weird and Stubbs were the same they easily covered each other. I've played that position too and there were people I enjoyed playing with and other centre backs who I just hated playing alongside.

On paper Stones and Jagielka should work but I am not sure it ever looks like it does. Yes it is early days with Mori and Stones but early signs are they just looked more naturally suited to one another. I think Mori will thrive on heading balls which will help Stones. I also think he will be a bit more comfortable on the ball than Jagielka is.

I think Jagielka is now a bit caught between schools. His reading of the game has come on and is what I'd call a fantastic "ground defender". He is quick, reads the game well, tackles and blocks brilliantly and can mark a forward out of the game. At present though I think he's lost a bit of spring and doesn't attack the ball well enough off crosses. I think he would be a perfect fit alongside a big oik playing for a Moyes type team. This is how he looked best next to Lescott, where he wasn't pressured enough aerielly.

I could well be wrong on Mori and Stones. It's not good losing Jagielka but we have to change something defensively. Martinez seems quite cautious to do this so it being forced upon him is no bad thing. I like Mori from what I've seen of him and I'm looking forward to see if he can form a partnership with Stones.

Ey mate, genuinely a cracking reply.
I'll stick to my guns, I believe jags has had some cracking partnerships including this one with stones however you've got some very valid points.
Love the reply mate, great debate.