Obama

[bizzaro]

UK leave the EU and the rest of the continent will be happy days I'm sure. We won't have the populist left in Southern Europe using us as an example to leave in protest against austerity. We surely won't have the populist right using us as an example to leave in protest against migration.

Maybe, just maybe, in addition to trade interests, Obama could recall the last few times America had to help out our continent when it was at each others throat in the aftermath of a huge depression. Not that history ever repeats itself like.

FFS, we're in a world where Donald Trump is not a million miles from getting into the White House. Fear is rampant right now, and fear leads to division, and division leads to conflict. Now more than ever we need to stay level headed and together, which for me means accepting the EU with its warts and all.

The EU isn't perfect.

But you'll never get it improved when you're not actually in it.

 

[bizzaro]

That's how I'll be voting mate. I'm ordinarily not one to believe that much will change regardless of how we vote domestically, but I really do think this would have enormous implications.

Same. Including voting. Personally I don't want to have to move some of my businesses to Ireland.

I know for a fact the EU institutions are listening to us. Certain things are going to go our way in future as a result in negotiations on reform.

The main crux in my view is freedom of movement and benefits. Due to a population growth boom in UK. Like I said. We are more likely than not to get our way on this due to what's happening in Europe.

The EU has realised that the pressures individual states are getting put under in some cases made it unsustainable.

The EU will just moderate. Incase states go too far the other way.

Tusk has said that's what they will do more of in future.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Same. Including voting. Personally I don't want to have to move some of my businesses to Ireland.

I know for a fact the EU institutions are listening to us. Certain things are going to go our way in future as a result in negotiations on reform.

The main crux in my view is freedom of movement and benefits. Due to a population growth boom in UK. Like I said. We are more likely than not to get our way on this due to what's happening in Europe.

The EU has realised that the pressures individual states are getting put under in some cases made it unsustainable.

The EU will just moderate. Incase states go too far the other way.

Tusk has said that's what they will do more of in future.

You'd imagine Tusk would be only too aware of the risks, seeing as his own centre-right party was ousted in the 2015 Polish elections by a bunch of far-right nutters.

 

[bizzaro]

I'm dyslexic too, and a sufferer of dyspraxia. We should create a club. Just me and you.

I agree with that point there, however I think history will also have him down as better than those who came before and better than his successor. He was hamstrung by A) his in my opinion foolish desire of not wanting to create further divisions between the Dems and Republicans in his first term, and the foolishness of the Republicans in his second term. Such is the broad spectrum of the two party system however, he was also tied by those within his own party who were looking after their own interests.

His politics is to the right of mine btw, and apart from Bernie, the next lot genuinely makes me fear for the world.

I've no problem with Hillary Clinton.

If you actually remember Bill Clinton you will know he actually got the US economy growing and with a budget surplus. All in all he was barring his personal misdemeanours pretty decent and he will act as a moderating force behind her.

For me Hilary Clinton would be the best choice. She's going to make changes but it'll be gradual and not too big too quickly. But if her husband is anything to go by. 4 years in you'll see the improvements.

 

[bizzaro]

You'd imagine Tusk would be only too aware of the risks, seeing as his own centre-right party was ousted in the 2015 Polish elections by a bunch of far-right nutters.

He's said recently that the EU should interfere 'less'.

The EU should focus on trade laws. This means safety. Preventing crime. Promoting growth and good governance.

It should focus less on social engineering or dictating border policies to individual states.

Think the European judiciary will be reigned in on the latter going forward by future treaties.

 

[chewee]

Obama is a proper full on McCarthy of a fraudster..

Started off boss.. But an utter pussie.

Not really, he got Medicade reform through. Something every Democratic President has tried and failed to do. Millions more now covered by affordable healthcare, big progress made on LGBT rights to under his watch, Iran and Cuba relations now cordial after decades of hostility. That's just the tip of the iceberg

Sure he isn't perfect, but with both houses of congress in Republican hands he's been swimming upstream for the last few years. Unlike his first term a republican congress makes it almost impossible for him to get sweeping reforms (Like Obamacare) through. History will be kind him, his reputation will grow out of office I'm sure. Unlike Reagan he hasn't left a ticking timebomb of debt for the next generation.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

He's said recently that the EU should interfere 'less'.

The EU should focus on trade laws. This means safety. Preventing crime. Promoting growth and good governance.

It should focus less on social engineering or dictating border policies to individual states.

Think the European judiciary will be reigned in on the latter going forward by future treaties.

There are things that make perfect sense to have pan-continental agreement on. Rules over driverless cars for instance, or how health data is treated. We need global standards on these things. Supporting free trade would also be one such thing (imo), but there are many that are busting for a scrap over TTIP (for instance).

 

[bizzaro]

There are things that make perfect sense to have pan-continental agreement on. Rules over driverless cars for instance, or how health data is treated. We need global standards on these things. Supporting free trade would also be one such thing (imo), but there are many that are busting for a scrap over TTIP (for instance).

Totally agree Bruce.

People literally have no idea how important or effective the EU has been in improving world trade and standards globally. Something in general (they have tried to push back but the EU stood firm in TTIP negotiations) the USA can work with during trade.

But I totally agree. People don't realise our trade with ASEAN. Australia. China. USA. Canada is actually enhanced as we apply European rules on our products which makes them easier to comply with their local laws

 

[Groucho]

There are things that make perfect sense to have pan-continental agreement on. Rules over driverless cars for instance, or how health data is treated. We need global standards on these things. Supporting free trade would also be one such thing (imo), but there are many that are busting for a scrap over TTIP (for instance).

I'm led to believe TTIP is dangerous for what few public services are left though. I'd be against that, personally.

Again, not enough info is passed down in my opinion.

 

[rascal]

I've no problem with Hillary Clinton.

If you actually remember Bill Clinton you will know he actually got the US economy growing and with a budget surplus. All in all he was barring his personal misdemeanours pretty decent and he will act as a moderating force behind her.

For me Hilary Clinton would be the best choice. She's going to make changes but it'll be gradual and not too big too quickly. But if her husband is anything to go by. 4 years in you'll see the improvements.

Hillary and Bill are and were both puppets of Wall Street. Bill's repealing of common sense Acts was directly culpable for the financial crisis.

 

[bizzaro]

Hillary and Bill are and were both puppets of Wall Street. Bill's repealing of common sense Acts was directly culpable for the financial crisis.

I'm not so sure you're correct in that portrayal

 

[rascal]

There are things that make perfect sense to have pan-continental agreement on. Rules over driverless cars for instance, or how health data is treated. We need global standards on these things. Supporting free trade would also be one such thing (imo), but there are many that are busting for a scrap over TTIP (for instance).

TTIP is a monstrosity.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm led to believe TTIP is dangerous for what few public services are left though. I'd be against that, personally.

Again, not enough info is passed down in my opinion.

From what I can make of it, think of it as a bit like a supermarket. If a country says that the shop is forbidden from selling crappy American beer then that's illegal, and rightly so, but it's ultimately still the choice of the supermarket whether to stock American beer, or indeed of the shopper if they want to buy it. No one is saying American companies have to be chosen for anything, merely that they shouldn't be forbidden from tendering. The power is still in the hands of whomever is buying/commissioning the service. Granted, as far as the NHS is concerned, I'm not entirely confident in the folks doing that, but that's not really the fault of TTIP or the EU.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

TTIP is a monstrosity.

Why?

 

[rascal]

I'm not so sure you're correct in that portrayal

Come on Biz, don't be on the wrong side of the argument here.