Current Affairs Nike - Colin Kaepernick

[ClausThomsen]

Further, if you're like me, you fully believe that the NFL has blackballed Kaepernick, meaning that all 32 owners are on board to keep their money safe.

There's no way a proven QB of his ability isn't worth a spot on someones roster, even as 2nd choice.

I'm tempted to agree with you about the blackball issue but it's difficult to show whether it's organised blackballing or simply a case of individual owners or Head Coaches not wanting the inevitable baggage or disruption.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Wonder if all the pople who are burning their Nike’s in protest at supporting Kaepernick are going to be as outraged at this?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

 

[Ghoat]

The broad terms make your whole point weak. Be more specific. What is your issue?

It was 2 points, sorry if that was missed.
The first one, that blacks are being shot all the time by the police (stated in a previous post) - which is a part of Kap's protest (police discrimination/brutality - especially shootings). This is a bit overstated, IMO, and became a huge focal point (Ferguson etc). It shouldn't happen, and a light should be shined when it does, and people held to account but I don't believe it's a nationwide epidemic. 20 times as many are being murdered daily, mostly in their neighborhoods - and that is an epidemic but flies under the radar.

Otherwise you just come across as if you are more interested in defending one side of an issue and creating a straw man argument to do so. Considering the side of the discussion you decided to indirectly defend its not a good look.

Not a straw man in the least. And I'm not defending one side. My second point/issue is, people in this country have a right to speak their mind, right wrong or indifferent, and I have no problem with that. But that doesn't mean I have to "support them" or agree with them, because on this case I don't agree. However, those who disagree, or are "against" Kap or the NFL players kneeling during the anthem are indeed often labeled as "Trumpkins", socially tone-deaf, racist etc

In summary
- it annoys me that when there is a fatal shooting by the police, it often becomes national news and there are protest or cries of injustice from national organizations before any facts are even known. But hundreds of senseless or random murders happen in those some communities a year without protest within the community itself, let alone a national uproar. To be clear, police should be held to a higher standard, and racism or brutality can't be tolerated.

- That being said, I have no issue protesting or speaking your mind for what you believe. Personally I think it would have been smarter to find a different way to protest - because frankly, it's been hi-jacked on both the left and right and become a different battle so to speak. A high profile person protesting and using the flag or national anthem will get attention, but when the narrative/debate becomes more about the methodology of the protest over the subject of the protest, I'd say the message has been blurred if not lost entirely.

As for Nike, they will likely gain more than they lose. People generally have short memories, pro and con. "There is no such thing as bad publicity" - true or not, Nike is getting a LOT of publicity for their brand

 

[bicycleheader]

It was 2 points, sorry if that was missed.
The first one, that blacks are being shot all the time by the police (stated in a previous post) - which is a part of Kap's protest (police discrimination/brutality - especially shootings). This is a bit overstated, IMO, and became a huge focal point (Ferguson etc). It shouldn't happen, and a light should be shined when it does, and people held to account but I don't believe it's a nationwide epidemic. 20 times as many are being murdered daily, mostly in their neighborhoods - and that is an epidemic but flies under the radar.



Not a straw man in the least. And I'm not defending one side. My second point/issue is, people in this country have a right to speak their mind, right wrong or indifferent, and I have no problem with that. But that doesn't mean I have to "support them" or agree with them, because on this case I don't agree. However, those who disagree, or are "against" Kap or the NFL players kneeling during the anthem are indeed often labeled as "Trumpkins", socially tone-deaf, racist etc

In summary
- it annoys me that when there is a fatal shooting by the police, it often becomes national news and there are protest or cries of injustice from national organizations before any facts are even known. But hundreds of senseless or random murders happen in those some communities a year without protest within the community itself, let alone a national uproar. To be clear, police should be held to a higher standard, and racism or brutality can't be tolerated.

- That being said, I have no issue protesting or speaking your mind for what you believe. Personally I think it would have been smarter to find a different way to protest - because frankly, it's been hi-jacked on both the left and right and become a different battle so to speak. A high profile person protesting and using the flag or national anthem will get attention, but when the narrative/debate becomes more about the methodology of the protest over the subject of the protest, I'd say the message has been blurred if not lost entirely.

As for Nike, they will likely gain more than they lose. People generally have short memories, pro and con. "There is no such thing as bad publicity" - true or not, Nike is getting a LOT of publicity for their brand

Who has said "all the time" or "epidemic"? You are painting the opposition in your own way to fit better your own point. It's not very specific and does sound like a straw man argument.

What do you mean by "flies under the radar" in relation to these other murders which you do believe are an "epidemic"? What protest for those murders do you think should be happening and who should they protest against?

What do you disagree with in regards to the protest? In regards to what the player has said and his actual views on the situation? Have you been called a racist or trumpkin or whatever, and for what comments?

Personally I believe people are dumb if they find offense at somebody kneeling for an anthem. If that is what they are truly finding offense with, and it's not for other reasons they don't like to shout as loudly. That the protest has been hijacked by whoever doesn't change the intent of the original protesters.

Details are important and I think your comments are rather vague and leave a certain impression whether true or not.

 

[Ghoat]

Who has said "all the time" or "epidemic"? You are painting the opposition in your own way to fit better your own point. It's not very specific and does sound like a straw man argument.

Go back and look at what I quoted in my first post, you will find your answer, and to what prompted me wading in. And to the poster in question, I was responding to your post, nothing more or less, and not personal

Details are important and I think your comments are rather vague and leave a certain impression whether true or not.

If details are important, and my comments are too vague, then I'm sure you will have no problem with me asking your to clarify or be specific about "the certain impression" I have left you with (true or not) correct?

 

[Huyton Layne]

I was given a T shirt with a big Nike swoosh on the front. Don't wear stuff that's designed like a big ad like that so it's in a bag in the basement with other clothes that's intended for if we ever manage to have a garage sale or it sits long enough to end up being given to charity. Think I'll dig it out to wear to the pub after footy Saturday. Wear my footy gear usually but feel like a change.

 

[Prevenger17]

It was 2 points, sorry if that was missed.
The first one, that blacks are being shot all the time by the police (stated in a previous post) - which is a part of Kap's protest (police discrimination/brutality - especially shootings). This is a bit overstated, IMO, and became a huge focal point (Ferguson etc). It shouldn't happen, and a light should be shined when it does, and people held to account but I don't believe it's a nationwide epidemic. 20 times as many are being murdered daily, mostly in their neighborhoods - and that is an epidemic but flies under the radar.



Not a straw man in the least. And I'm not defending one side. My second point/issue is, people in this country have a right to speak their mind, right wrong or indifferent, and I have no problem with that. But that doesn't mean I have to "support them" or agree with them, because on this case I don't agree. However, those who disagree, or are "against" Kap or the NFL players kneeling during the anthem are indeed often labeled as "Trumpkins", socially tone-deaf, racist etc

In summary
- it annoys me that when there is a fatal shooting by the police, it often becomes national news and there are protest or cries of injustice from national organizations before any facts are even known. But hundreds of senseless or random murders happen in those some communities a year without protest within the community itself, let alone a national uproar. To be clear, police should be held to a higher standard, and racism or brutality can't be tolerated.

- That being said, I have no issue protesting or speaking your mind for what you believe. Personally I think it would have been smarter to find a different way to protest - because frankly, it's been hi-jacked on both the left and right and become a different battle so to speak. A high profile person protesting and using the flag or national anthem will get attention, but when the narrative/debate becomes more about the methodology of the protest over the subject of the protest, I'd say the message has been blurred if not lost entirely.

As for Nike, they will likely gain more than they lose. People generally have short memories, pro and con. "There is no such thing as bad publicity" - true or not, Nike is getting a LOT of publicity for their brand

I'm failing to follow you here. Kaepernik is protesting that, on average, 20 or so unarmed men are needlessly shot dead by police every year. That may seem small and unworthy of protest to you, but obvs not to him. But that's kind of how protests work and why they happen. You highlight something you think is an issue and try to get other people to see

 

[bicycleheader]

Go back and look at what I quoted in my first post, you will find your answer, and to what prompted me wading in. And to the poster in question, I was responding to your post, nothing more or less, and not personal




If details are important, and my comments are too vague, then I'm sure you will have no problem with me asking your to clarify or be specific about "the certain impression" I have left you with (true or not) correct?

Fair enough, the one post by one poster on an everton forum in the UK has said it happens all the time.

I was hoping you might expound a bit on your actual thoughts on the protest or come back to me on my other points but you haven't. It's difficult to understand your stance from your posts.

I have an issue with people who jump up and down and create a backlash to the backlash, as such, to an actual issue. It's something I notice a lot.

Many would be unlikely to have strong feelings on the original issue, or if they do they seem to prefer to not say.

However such people then find their voice to protest the protest and seem to care a lot about this, whilst strangely not caring too much about the original issue which is normally more important.

As a dumb simple example, a person says nothing about a racist or xenophobic or homophobic attack, but has lots to say when they don't like or feel threatened by others reactions. The shouts about the world going crazy and being too PC. It says a lot about the person. You see it on here all the time. Not that particular example but that kind of thing.

I am not sure many people stop to think about what it says about them, and what their actual thought processes are to lead them to that.

Hence the questions I asked you on your stance, and the comment on how the post came across to me.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

It was 2 points, sorry if that was missed.
The first one, that blacks are being shot all the time by the police (stated in a previous post) - which is a part of Kap's protest (police discrimination/brutality - especially shootings). This is a bit overstated, IMO, and became a huge focal point (Ferguson etc). It shouldn't happen, and a light should be shined when it does, and people held to account but I don't believe it's a nationwide epidemic. 20 times as many are being murdered daily, mostly in their neighborhoods - and that is an epidemic but flies under the radar.



Not a straw man in the least. And I'm not defending one side. My second point/issue is, people in this country have a right to speak their mind, right wrong or indifferent, and I have no problem with that. But that doesn't mean I have to "support them" or agree with them, because on this case I don't agree. However, those who disagree, or are "against" Kap or the NFL players kneeling during the anthem are indeed often labeled as "Trumpkins", socially tone-deaf, racist etc

In summary
- it annoys me that when there is a fatal shooting by the police, it often becomes national news and there are protest or cries of injustice from national organizations before any facts are even known. But hundreds of senseless or random murders happen in those some communities a year without protest within the community itself, let alone a national uproar. To be clear, police should be held to a higher standard, and racism or brutality can't be tolerated.

- That being said, I have no issue protesting or speaking your mind for what you believe. Personally I think it would have been smarter to find a different way to protest - because frankly, it's been hi-jacked on both the left and right and become a different battle so to speak. A high profile person protesting and using the flag or national anthem will get attention, but when the narrative/debate becomes more about the methodology of the protest over the subject of the protest, I'd say the message has been blurred if not lost entirely.

As for Nike, they will likely gain more than they lose. People generally have short memories, pro and con. "There is no such thing as bad publicity" - true or not, Nike is getting a LOT of publicity for their brand

Whose fault is that? Colin chose a medium that was sure to get attention.

Lost in translation is the fact that he changed to kneeling after consulting a member of the military, in order to expressly NOT disrespect the flag. The narrative has been hijacked by those who disagree with him/don't want to entertain anything he has to say.

 

[Ghoat]

I'm failing to follow you here. Kaepernik is protesting that, on average, 20 or so unarmed men are needlessly shot dead by police every year. That may seem small and unworthy of protest to you, but obvs not to him. But that's kind of how protests work and why they happen. You highlight something you think is an issue and try to get other people to see

I would not say it's unworthy. I may think there are "bigger issues", but as you point out, it's what HE feels is important and wants to highlight, and indeed that's the how a protest works and is supposed to work. I have no issue with that premise in the least.

 

[Ghoat]

Fair enough, the one post by one poster on an everton forum in the UK has said it happens all the time.

I was hoping you might expound a bit on your actual thoughts on the protest or come back to me on my other points but you haven't. It's difficult to understand your stance from your posts.

Even that is a broad topic because the protest has become subject to many topics beyond the original point. But, I'll try.

The original subject/topic of the protest, well I don't see how anyone could have an issue with it. Specifics, scope, history and such will come into the discussion of course, but discrimination, be it systemic, overt or tacit by any organization, ESPECIALLY a government organization (police, local, federal, military, education etc) cannot be tolerated. I don't think it can ever be eradicated (in any organization) because you have individuals, and therein lies the problem. But that doesn't mean it's ok or can be tolerated. Especially when it comes to matters of a personal physical well being, let alone life itself. So, by that, yes, I believe it's a just cause that Kap is trying to highlight.

Another big part of this has become what can NFL do, and should they do, if anything.
My opinion is the NFL can prohibit these protests if they wish. These are employees on the job at the workplace, and the employer has a lot of latitude to say what you can and can't do while at work - just as any of our employer's do. The right to free speech (in the US Constitution) is pretty narrow in scope. It protects citizens from being denied the right to dissent or speak as they wish by the government. You still can't yell "fire" or "bomb" in a crowd under "free speech". Broadly speaking an employer can limit free speech, especially in the work place, but that's certainly not unilateral.
So people who say the NFL could make them stop if they wanted to I think are correct, in a legal sense. Saying they SHOULD is different. I think while the NFL has that right, it would be absolutely the stupidest thing possible, regardless of pressure from stakeholders, advertisers, POTUS, whatever.

It's hard to just give my thoughts on all of this, because there are so many discussions that can dove-tail from this, endlessly. But hopefully those 2 narrow-scope thoughts give you a couple of my opinions?

 

[Number_25]

> Land of freedom
> Man talks about the fact that policemen are murdering black people
> People burn socks in protest

 

[bicycleheader]

Even that is a broad topic because the protest has become subject to many topics beyond the original point. But, I'll try.

The original subject/topic of the protest, well I don't see how anyone could have an issue with it. Specifics, scope, history and such will come into the discussion of course, but discrimination, be it systemic, overt or tacit by any organization, ESPECIALLY a government organization (police, local, federal, military, education etc) cannot be tolerated. I don't think it can ever be eradicated (in any organization) because you have individuals, and therein lies the problem. But that doesn't mean it's ok or can be tolerated. Especially when it comes to matters of a personal physical well being, let alone life itself. So, by that, yes, I believe it's a just cause that Kap is trying to highlight.

Another big part of this has become what can NFL do, and should they do, if anything.
My opinion is the NFL can prohibit these protests if they wish. These are employees on the job at the workplace, and the employer has a lot of latitude to say what you can and can't do while at work - just as any of our employer's do. The right to free speech (in the US Constitution) is pretty narrow in scope. It protects citizens from being denied the right to dissent or speak as they wish by the government. You still can't yell "fire" or "bomb" in a crowd under "free speech". Broadly speaking an employer can limit free speech, especially in the work place, but that's certainly not unilateral.
So people who say the NFL could make them stop if they wanted to I think are correct, in a legal sense. Saying they SHOULD is different. I think while the NFL has that right, it would be absolutely the stupidest thing possible, regardless of pressure from stakeholders, advertisers, POTUS, whatever.

It's hard to just give my thoughts on all of this, because there are so many discussions that can dove-tail from this, endlessly. But hopefully those 2 narrow-scope thoughts give you a couple of my opinions?

That does clarify a fair bit, but from your stance in the first point I don't follow how you can disagree with his way of protesting? The point about what the NFL could or should do is by the by, not really what we were talking about. I think. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[dublinbluenose]