New Crest Consultation

[orchard]

That is to be established.


Well, spending money with a proper opinion poll company to produce a less leading and more reflective survey rather than the DIY amateur effort produced with free online software I wasted my time on this morning.

Where's the poll money gone Bill ffs ?

-that is to say, you're right, generally our board/exec's tend to be too amateur for the scale of business that they head-up mate. But they seem to be fairly new to this aspect.

 

[Bilko]

again,not with you on this road Coach,seems the correct procedure is being followed here to me.you think the backroom staff pulled the poll together on a wet afternoon,highly doubt it,given the fiasco of the original design.

 

[Trowel]

I think it's obvious we need a petition to allow us a vote on what type of questionnaire we'd like to decide which elements people like in a crest.

...what type of petition should we have?

 

[Little Ralphy]

In lots of ways - some of which I pointed out above.

Let's take the badge / logo questions for example:

1. the preselection of images immediately biases the results.

2. people will inevitably choose images based on subconcious associations with the brand rather than the image e.g. oooh I like eating MacDonalds therefore I'll pick that one.

3. The way questions are constructed can introduce bias - e.g. I think it is no coincidence that the first three answer options (out of twelve) to question 9 are the ones the club wants to see.

4. I think you have answered your own question - if you force people to give their priorities / opinion then you are not really getting their true priorities / opinion. For example, instead of asking people to put things in order of importance (from 1 to 5) you could ask them how important they are (marks out of 10 - zero being an option).

There are other faults with the survey - not least of which is that I can fill out the survey more than once.

1. It’s not about the actual images though is it, I thought the selection of images was quite well thought out. They had some modern ones like Wolfsburg, some traditional like City and then a good mix of different ones. Why would they need loads more?

2. So if all people are incapable of thinking for themselves and just choosing their favourite brand, despite the question advising not to do this, you’d have to think whatever the format, those people aren’t clever enough to give a proper input.

3. I’m not sure I agree with you on this one, how do you know what the Club want?

4. If you have ever been involved with employee performance, then you know everyone grades differently, so you need alignment meetings etc. to ensure that everyone is giving the same marks out of 10 for the same things. I think in terms of deciding which is the most important for the fan base then you have to go for a ‘choose your order 1-5’. Otherwise it doesn’t tell you anything. One man’s 10 is another man’s 7. But everyone can identify with a first choice.

Like the Crest design itself, it’s far easier to rubbish things and give negative feedback than it is to actually construct something in the first place. As Myers said on twitter, this is by no means a vote, it’s just an initial consultation. I like the fact they’ve set aside space for people to upload their own images and designs.

 

[Jacko93]

Christ - what a loaded questionnaire.

For example


The answers are on radio buttons so you cannot give joint importance to anything - for me the motto, tower and wreathes.

You are not allowed to say, completely unimportant - for me 1878 and the Club's name.

This is just one question - there are loads of others that force me to give answers I don't want to give.

Who gives a shi t about other club's badges? I've actually got stuck on that question because I don't like any other club's badge but I am being forced to say which is my favourite. Not only that but I am then asked what I like about them - answer: nothing.

What style would you like Evertons badge to be in? Simple design, surrounded by a crest, circle, or standalone? There are logos on the questionnaire that will suit one of the styles you prefer. Personally, I like the Spurs logo, as it is the badge that has the most features that I would like to see included on our badge. Simple, uncluttered, to the point and instantly recognisable.

TBH, in my humble opinion, anybody who doesn't get what they are trying to do here, is a little bit simple.

Seriously, if you can't answer a simple multiple choice questionaaire that can shape the future of your clubs crest design, then maybe its better that you dont fill it in.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

There's a good chance you'll dislike the new badge- that is unavoidable.
You can give as detailed input as you want and yet it could end up being entirely abhorrent to you.
But this way there's a good chance the vast majority of fans will be very satisfied.

 

[Rupert's Tower]

I did the questionnaire and found it easy enough to fill out, it's obvious what the purpose of it is. No need to pick holes cos no matter what the club does it's never good enough in some people's eyes

One thing that worries me by this whole process is we could end up getting a worse badge than what we've currently got. Things like the word EVERTON shroud be on the badge no matter what but a lot of fans seem to think EFC is better. I also don't think 1878 needs to be on there and I really hate the idea of having a circle like Chelsea do; that's not in anyway an Everton crest for me. Has to be a shield

 

[allen]

Personally, I like the Spurs logo, as it is the badge that has the most features that I would like to see included on our badge. Simple, uncluttered, to the point and instantly recognisable.

Agreed. I hate to say it, but I like what the neighbours have done, too. Simplicity wins.

 

[Coach]

1. It’s not about the actual images though is it, I thought the selection of images was quite well thought out. They had some modern ones like Wolfsburg, some traditional like City and then a good mix of different ones. Why would they need loads more?

It is roughly 2/3 simple and 1/3 complicated designs. Maybe it is well thought out if you want to get a higher chance of people picking simple designs.

2. So if all people are incapable of thinking for themselves and just choosing their favourite brand, despite the question advising not to do this, you’d have to think whatever the format, those people aren’t clever enough to give a proper input.

You can ask questions about what what qualities you would like to see in a logo without predisposing people by showing them other logos first.

3. I’m not sure I agree with you on this one, how do you know what the Club want?

I'm certain that when the new badge was unveiled that the reason for change was given as the club wanting something simpler and more modern. But, let's face it, if it wasn't for a certain market trader copyrighting our badge we wouldn't be going through any of this at all.

4. If you have ever been involved with employee performance, then you know everyone grades differently, so you need alignment meetings etc. to ensure that everyone is giving the same marks out of 10 for the same things. I think in terms of deciding which is the most important for the fan base then you have to go for a ‘choose your order 1-5’. Otherwise it doesn’t tell you anything. One man’s 10 is another man’s 7. But everyone can identify with a first choice.

Simple aggregation of all the scores from thousands of people would average out and thus eliminate this problem. Doing it this way has the advantage of highlighting the relative importance of each factor rather than forcing a false picture to emerge through placing things in order. You say everyone can identify with a first choice but I have a joint first choice of three items - the rest are not my choice at all - so how can my view be reflected?

 

[Royal-Blue-Mersey]

Thought it was quite a good questionnaire to be fair, it will give them the data they need for the broad decisions about what is and isn't considered important to the fans.

For example, the only thing that I don't like about our last two badges is the yellow outline around the shield. I know a lot of our away kits have been amber over the years, but I think our club crest should only have our home colours in it, which are blue and white. So I was happy that this was one of the questions in the questionnaire.

Also happy that you could specifiy between shield, circle, standalone or other for the badge shape. As peronally I think the shield element of the badge is what makes it look outdated.

 

[Little Ralphy]

It is roughly 2/3 simple and 1/3 complicated designs. Maybe it is well thought out if you want to get a higher chance of people picking simple designs.

I’d have said more like 1/3 very simple, 1/3 different, 1/3 traditional. But then that’s over simplifying it, as each design they used seemed to offer something a bit different. Off the top of my head, you had Spurs stand alone, Wolfsburg very simple, Man City traditional, Wolves a bit different and Bayern Munich incorporating the name but not much else.

You can ask questions about what what qualities you would like to see in a logo without predisposing people by showing them other logos first.

How would you answer that though? It doesn’t need to be complicated, it’s easier to say which of these do you like? Rather than what would you like to see. How would you quantify thousands of different text responses?

I'm certain that when the new badge was unveiled that the reason for change was given as the club wanting something simpler and more modern. But, let's face it, if it wasn't for a certain market trader copyrighting our badge we wouldn't be going through any of this at all.

They pretty much said the old badge was difficult to reproduce on certain things and was being done incorrectly. I’ve no doubt they want something easier to produce and possibly more simple, but how simple is up for debate. I think the time was right to change it, and almost rebrand the club, they just didn’t do it well, but I think this feedback questionnaire is a good start IMO.

Simple aggregation of all the scores from thousands of people would average out and thus eliminate this problem. Doing it this way has the advantage of highlighting the relative importance of each factor rather than forcing a false picture to emerge through placing things in order. You say everyone can identify with a first choice but I have a joint first choice of three items - the rest are not my choice at all - so how can my view be reflected?

If you can’t make up your mind about what you want though, in a simple ‘rank these’ format, how would you answer your second point? How do you pick your food order when you eat out? At the end of the day it’s asking you to choose a first, second...fifth choice. It’s not that difficult and much better than a score out of ten answer.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

I don't feel too strongly about the shield. Why a shield? Go away shield.

 

[moosed]

Am I the only person who isn't arsed in the slightest about all of this ? current one does the job, it's not like I have to spend hours everyday looking at it. More important things to care about than a feckin badge.

 

[Dom1878]

I quite like the new badge now...it does actually look modern and more easily recognised.

 

[Kever10]

In essence mate, yes, once they've been through post-production ( ) with the finesse that toffee-fellaini's have, that'll be my ideal

They are quite nice, my favourite of these ones is the second one on the first row,

However for me the badge has to contain two laurel wreaths, either side of the tower, to look like an Everton Badge, so none of these would be my first choice

Yeah, I agree, I just threw it together in response to Orchards message about having the tower/laurel with round badges Everton/NSNO. It was only done quickly in MS Word, no access to any fancy graphics packages unfortunately.
To be honest, my ideal badge would be the bags before last, is, the crest without the Everton and 1878 hanging off.

But I can see the reasoning behind the rebrand, and I have to say, after hating it to begin with, my opinion on the new badge has mellowed considerably, and im actually warming to its vivid simplicity.

I've bought the shirt as well and for what It's worth, i think its 1 of the better shirts we've had in a while.