Netherlands piloting women to play men's football

[zzr45]

There was a great example I saw/read somewhere a while back on this.

An elite women’s player really couldn’t compete with an elite men’s player. The speed of the game is a good deal quicker, that means a woman playing in an elite game would have to work harder than males playing in the same game, so unless there’s a really endurance tailored athlete, who would spend so much time working on endurance that tech/tac work would likely fall by the wayside, the likelihood of lasting 90 minutes is near impossible. Also, would a woman have the same capacity to keep up with the game - if a player is 0.05 seconds slower to get in a position because they don’t have the same ability to accelerate, lower stride length etc, within 20 seconds they are a 1 second behind the game - is that going to be an effective player?

The problem is that there’s no true understanding from fans as to the actual physical requirements to play elite level sport, nor how much it affects everything else.

Could women play with men? Absolutely. At what level is the question as to where the inherent physical advantages males have are no longer an absolute game changer is the question.

 

[DOMNOLAN]

Fokkema hell, what century are some of you from...

I know it’s not the same (so I don’t really want to open up this other can of worms), but it’s the same principle; in MMA when trans fighters fight their opponents they crack skulls and nearly kill them. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable shouting at players to get stuck in harder if that meant putting in challenges that normally wouldn’t be an issue, that would now mean risking serious harm.

You seperate U16s from open aged football and you have to get special dispensation to play against adults each time which when not at professional clubs isn’t always easily to get. There’s a reason for it. And if even 14 year olds can easily outbest women physically, then it surely there would be the same issue.

I thought I gave reasonable explanations behind my concernes, but hey ho.

 

[JLW]

Just NO keep genders apart from when competing in sport!

 

[ForeverBlue92]

So its sexist to allow a 19 year old to play for a senior team that wants to have her at the club she's played mixed football at since she was a child?

Yes - it says to the other women that their leagues are not good enough and the only way to truly "make it" is by playing with men.

Thats the definition of sexism.

If you want to increase the standard of womens football thats fine - but dont put their safety at risk having them play at a level of intensity they struggle with against much stronger opponents.

Add in the safeguarding issues - where does this female get changed as surely they cant be in the same dressing room?

When Chelsea won the title Diego Costa was running around in his undies slapping other players arses - imagine if he did that to the only female - heck imagine if he never and she felt not fully part of the "team".

Its complete rubbish - a lightweight boxer may want to fight Anthony Joshua but its simply stupid to do for a variety of reasons regardless of how good said fighter was.

Lets leave things as they are - VAR, 5 subs, drink breaks now this - may aswell have HT parades and commericals and go full whack.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Yes - it says to the other women that their leagues are not good enough and the only way to truly "make it" is by playing with men.

Thats the definition of sexism.

If you want to increase the standard of womens football thats fine - but dont put their safety at risk having them play at a level of intensity they struggle with against much stronger opponents.

Add in the safeguarding issues - where does this female get changed as surely they cant be in the same dressing room?

When Chelsea won the title Diego Costa was running around in his undies slapping other players arses - imagine if he did that to the only female - heck imagine if he never and she felt not fully part of the "team".

Its complete rubbish - a lightweight boxer may want to fight Anthony Joshua but its simply stupid to do for a variety of reasons regardless of how good said fighter was.

Lets leave things as they are - VAR, 5 subs, drink breaks now this - may aswell have HT parades and commericals and go full whack.

Ok, so it's more sexist than saying "I know you've been playing with these people since you were 8. I know you're good enough to play in this league. We want you to play in this league but you can't because you have a vagina"?

I fear I may have misunderstood what sexism is all this time.

As to your safeguarding and team building issues, why don't you look into how age group and amateur football have managed it in the Netherlands since 1996?

 

[zzr45]

Just as an add on to previous post -

Top speeds from Women’s World Cup - https://statsports.com/total-distance-who-lead-by-example-in-the-uwnts-world-cup-triumph/

Man Utd preseason speeds - https://www.tribalfootball.com/arti...n-utd-teammates-posting-fitness-stats-4291367

Distance covered by players - https://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/training/premier-league-v-amateur-fitness

 

[The binman chronicles]

Then the 'misogynist' label comes out when someone gives their opinion on why they think it wouldn't work.

Always the same if you have anything negative to say in a thread immediately that makes you a racist/sexist or any other ist they want to label you with.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If a professional football club and their scouts deem a female player good enough for their team then they should be allowed to sign, pay and play her. Its their business and their money.

Whether that will happen at the top flight is a pointless argument now as female football is still in its infancy really.

I believe FA rules only allow mixed teams for under 18 only... However, it will change when economics dictate...

I know it’s not the same (so I don’t really want to open up this other can of worms), but it’s the same principle; in MMA when trans fighters fight their opponents they crack skulls and nearly kill them. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable shouting at players to get stuck in harder if that meant putting in challenges that normally wouldn’t be an issue, that would now mean risking serious harm.

You seperate U16s from open aged football and you have to get special dispensation to play against adults each time which when not at professional clubs isn’t always easily to get. There’s a reason for it. And if even 14 year olds can easily outbest women physically, then it surely there would be the same issue.

I thought I gave reasonable explanations behind my concernes, but hey ho.

And the physical nonsenses is funny, it's been debunked it's like something out of 1950s as in Africans are only good at athletics...

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Ok, so it's more sexist than saying "I know you've been playing with these people since you were 8. I know you're good enough to play in this league. We want you to play in this league but you can't because you have a vagina"?

I fear I may have misunderstood what sexism is all this time.

As to your safeguarding and team building issues, why don't you look into how age group and amateur football have managed it in the Netherlands since 1996?

Its sexist 100% - if you're good enough you can play with the men lol

Amateur football isnt on the same level so thats daft mate.

As I said I hope all the people advocating this would be happy when the first female is knocked unconscious contesting a header or has a foot snapped the other way around going into a routine 50/50 with a much physically stronger opponent.

Maybe then they'll realise how daft they are and the real safety issues at play with mixed gender physical competitions.

 

[Willie Thorne]

The US womens team lost 5-2 to an under 15s lads side before they went on to win the world cup.

 

[chrismpw]

This last bit is spot on...but you know its a possibility

Add to that, referees are dreadful enough as it is. Can you guarantee you'd get a ref who isn't going to either protect them unfairly, or turn a blind eye to a man going in too hard to prove a point?

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Always the same if you have anything negative to say in a thread immediately that makes you a racist/sexist or any other ist they want to label you with.

That's why a lot of people are scared to voice their opinion on everyday matters that could be considered delicate mate, they just know they'll be labelled because their opinion won't fit the agenda.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Its sexist 100% - if you're good enough you can play with the men lol

Amateur football isnt on the same level so thats daft mate.

As I said I hope all the clowns are happy when the first female is knocked unconscious contesting a header or has a foot snapped the other way around going into a routine 50/50 with a much physically stronger opponent.

Maybe then they'll realise how daft they are and the real safety issues at play with mixed gender physical competitions.

The Dutch 4th Tier IS amateur football, they only have 2 professional leagues.

How has the player in question managed to survive playing with and against men up to the age of 20 without destroying her fragile little body? How are all the women playing mixed football in the "B" grade not routinely snapping themselves in to tiny pieces (football in the Netherlands has a massive participation rate, by the way, at all ages)?

Finally, you are aware that the women have to want to be on the pitch, yes? Nobody is sacrificing these poor maidens on the altar of political correctness, they are there by choice.

Why don't we let them decide what they'd rather do? There is at least one who wants to continue playing in the team she is currently in and I'm happy that the KNVB are supportive of her.

Again, this is happening in all age group football in the Netherlands and in senior football outside of the pyramid. Why is it such a huge issue for you who VV Foarut want to put in their side?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

If she can hold her own then good for her

Let's just hope she can, otherwise this will be a disaster

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The Dutch 4th Tier IS amateur football, they only have 2 professional leagues.

How has the player in question managed to survive playing with and against men up to the age of 20 without destroying her fragile little body? How are all the women playing mixed football in the "B" grade not routinely snapping themselves in to tiny pieces (football in the Netherlands has a massive participation rate, by the way, at all ages)?

Finally, you are aware that the women have to want to be on the pitch, yes? Nobody is sacrificing these poor maidens on the altar of political correctness, they are there by choice.

Why don't we let them decide what they'd rather do? There is at least one who wants to continue playing in the team she is currently in and I'm happy that the KNVB are supportive of her.

Again, this is happening in all age group football in the Netherlands and in senior football outside of the pyramid. Why is it such a huge issue for you who VV Foarut want to put in their side?

Women mature physically quicker than lads therefore up until age 20 the difference in body size and intensity is completely different. People who claim womens football is "boring" only say so because of the lack of intensity and pace of the game - its nothing to do with actual ability of the players themselves however its that phsyical intensity and pace added with the phsyical differences in the two genders that makes it dangerous to be mixing the two.

They shouldn't have the choice its that simple- certainly not at professional level.

Same way people cant just decide to fight outside of weight classes or blue belts competing against brown belts in BJJ etc.

Save it for a kick about in the park with your mates.