Moyes Watch @ Real Sociedad

[micknick]

I think he'd see that as 'beneath' him, tbh. Moyes will surely wait now. He'll do the tv pundit circuit waiting for a decent PL opportunity to arise. He probably does have one bullet left in the chamber as far as a top flight job is concerned, purely because of the results he got here.

He's running out of track though.

The thing is the two jobs hes taken could well be seen as poisoned chalices. Whoever replaced Ferguson was on a hiding to nothing and Sociedad job in a foreign climate could have gone either way. He always needs a couple of years like he did with us and Preston so someone needs to take him with that mentality.

I always said Newcastle would be his next job but we'll see.

 

[Ashtonian]

I think he'd see that as 'beneath' him, tbh. Moyes will surely wait now. He'll do the tv pundit circuit waiting for a decent PL opportunity to arise. He probably does have one bullet left in the chamber as far as a top flight job is concerned, purely because of the results he got here.

He's running out of track though.

Why wouldn't he want celtic though mate? Unless he genuinely believes that he could take another united level job, celtic would be the ideal job for him. Easy league, job for life as long as you keep everyone happy, win trophies for fun, champions league football on a yearly basis (if you navigate the qualifier) and he used to play for celtic so going from the player to manager is surely a bit of a draw.

Either way, the celtic job is surely the most cushy one in football to take? Especially if you can beat a load of part time teams consistently enough and beat a team over 2 legs once a year to get into the place moyes achieved once in 11 years here.

 

[davek]

The thing is the two jobs hes taken could well be seen as poisoned chalices. Whoever replaced Ferguson was on a hiding to nothing and Sociedad job in a foreign climate could have gone either way. He always needs a couple of years like he did with us and Preston so someone needs to take him with that mentality.

I always said Newcastle would be his next job but we'll see.

Maybe. But the big difference between when he was at Preston/when he started here is the that the money in the game has ballooned. The message seems to be: hit the ground running or you're on thin ice. As you say, that's not a conducive environment for Moyes to operate in.

After having two strikes, he's going to have to prove himself in his first 12 months in charge of his next club or he'll be out and in the Phil Brown, Alex McLeish, Paul Jewell managerial carousel club.

 

[davek]

Why wouldn't he want celtic though mate? Unless he genuinely believes that he could take another united level job, celtic would be the ideal job for him. Easy league, job for life as long as you keep everyone happy, win trophies for fun, champions league football on a yearly basis (if you navigate the qualifier) and he used to play for celtic so going from the player to manager is surely a bit of a draw.

Either way, the celtic job is surely the most cushy one in football to take? Especially if you can beat a load of part time teams consistently enough and beat a team over 2 legs once a year to get into the place moyes achieved once in 11 years here.

It's cushy but unrewarding - financially and career wise. It's a post managers look to use as a springboard out of Scotland. No one out of there already wants to jump back into the frying pan.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I think the current Managerial situations show more and more how good a job the Everton one is. Sherwood bombed out of Villa after keeping them up last season and hitting a slump this, ditto Advocaat, Gary Monk the latest to hit poor form and his history forgotten about as they look to get rid. Moyes and even Martinez have both enjoyed the patience afforded them by the Everton board after poor runs of form.


No doubt Moyes will still think very highly of himself he always did, and will expect a decent Premiership job, but I think he could do worse than start angling for the Celtic job. He can obviously go down the media route and enjoy the coin and the fact he can live wherever he wants with zero pressure, but if he wants to continue as a manager, a few years at Celtic to add a few trophies to his cv and test himself in Europe year on year isn’t a bad idea. Especially with the way he manipulates his media profile, he’ll be linked with bigger jobs before he knows it, as the trophy gaps in his cv (and experience) will have been filled.

 

[Ashtonian]

I think the current Managerial situations show more and more how good a job the Everton one is. Sherwood bombed out of Villa after keeping them up last season and hitting a slump this, ditto Advocaat, Gary Monk the latest to hit poor form and his history forgotten about as they look to get rid. Moyes and even Martinez have both enjoyed the patience afforded them by the Everton board after poor runs of form.


No doubt Moyes will still think very highly of himself he always did, and will expect a decent Premiership job, but I think he could do worse than start angling for the Celtic job. He can obviously go down the media route and enjoy the coin and the fact he can live wherever he wants with zero pressure, but if he wants to continue as a manager, a few years at Celtic to add a few trophies to his cv and test himself in Europe year on year isn’t a bad idea. Especially with the way he manipulates his media profile, he’ll be linked with bigger jobs before he knows it, as the trophy gaps in his cv (and experience) will have been filled.

One thing that has impressed me about our club is that we seem to be giving martinez what he couldn't get from whelan for years. We aren't selling his team from under him, he are allowing him freedom to fail, he can back younger players without pressure from above and he can go and sign the players he wants, considering the likes of besic / mori / galloway were pretty much players none of us were aware existed until we signed them.

I seen it said yesterday we really are a unique club in that regard, Moyes just took liberties and stayed far beyond his welcome at the club.

 

[catcherintherye]

The thing is the two jobs hes taken could well be seen as poisoned chalices. Whoever replaced Ferguson was on a hiding to nothing and Sociedad job in a foreign climate could have gone either way. He always needs a couple of years like he did with us and Preston so someone needs to take him with that mentality.

I always said Newcastle would be his next job but we'll see.

I would agree with you, certainly with the United job. However the problem Moyes has had is both jobs represented the very things that those who defended him (myself included) felt would allow him to flourish.

At Everton the narrative was very much that he didn't achieve more because there was a lack of money available and that the league itself was too unequal in resources. Moyes's core strengths were building a squad and coaching them which would be more suited to a league outside of the Premier League.

At United how was found out in being able to handle big ego's. At Sociedad he has shown that he is unable to coach a team to play attacking football in a league where outside of the top 2 the rest of the teams are more equal than here.

 

[catcherintherye]

Maybe. But the big difference between when he was at Preston/when he started here is the that the money in the game has ballooned. The message seems to be: hit the ground running or you're on thin ice. As you say, that's not a conducive environment for Moyes to operate in.

I think the point you make is a good one. I think Moyes is starting to resemble a bit of a luddite figure who has rigidly refused to adapt his approach to the modern game.

He seems to be very good at getting an underperforming squad to churn out results and become stable in the league without requiring an awful lot of money to do so. However with the game being awash with money now the expectations of fans are higher and he simply doesn't deliver.

In the end he had to take the Manchester United job so it's hard to begrudge him that. I think he will regret his last few years at Everton though where he went through the motions. I think he lost his way and it's difficult to find it back.

 

[oldblue]

Maybe it's another thread but interesting to think about all the personnel who've left with the idea that the grass is greener and found its far from it.
Plenty have found financial rewards but in terms of their reputation... Rooney? Maybe. Lineker.. debatable.
The list of those who were probably at the right club and left is growing though.

 

[peteblue]

One thing that has impressed me about our club is that we seem to be giving martinez what he couldn't get from whelan for years. We aren't selling his team from under him, he are allowing him freedom to fail, he can back younger players without pressure from above and he can go and sign the players he wants, considering the likes of besic / mori / galloway were pretty much players none of us were aware existed until we signed them.

I seen it said yesterday we really are a unique club in that regard, Moyes just took liberties and stayed far beyond his welcome at the club.

Tbf, Moyes gave the club the stability that allows Everton the ability to give managers time. The Wigans of this world know that they need instant results or they go back down. If today we are unique it's because Moyes did it. However, even though a lot of us appreciated what he had done, it was obvious towards the end that he didn't have the bottle or the nous to bring real success to a club such as ours. He's not a bad manager, just one that isn't quite good enough......

 

[bluemangroup]

Evidently this place must be brimming with wilfully ignorant, improper Evertonians then...going by how many agree with this Aussie quilt.

Quite. And bitter blues who don't seem to be able to get over a few poorly chosen words.

 

[davek]

I think the point you make is a good one. I think Moyes is starting to resemble a bit of a luddite figure who has rigidly refused to adapt his approach to the modern game.

He seems to be very good at getting an underperforming squad to churn out results and become stable in the league without requiring an awful lot of money to do so. However with the game being awash with money now the expectations of fans are higher and he simply doesn't deliver.

In the end he had to take the Manchester United job so it's hard to begrudge him that. I think he will regret his last few years at Everton though where he went through the motions. I think he lost his way and it's difficult to find it back.

The Peter Principle applies to Moyes. Promoted above his talents.

On reflection, Moyes was always a very good Championship level manager. Disciplined, defensively good, emphasis on hard work, but limited in their tactical awareness. In essence he took over at Everton when we were, in all but name, a Championship level club. We'd been flirting with that level for years, so it was a good fit for Moyes and us. He came in and made us a very good Championship quality team that competed well above any right it had to expect (with the blip second season left out of the equation). I've always believed the PL (especially back then) to never be of the quality its always afforded. Any club offering a lot of effort and discipline can achieve a fair bit. He got that out of our players and he got a lot of leeway from owners who were not ambitious (on or off the field). It was perfect for him. As soon as he left Everton though he had to show his own coaching credentials (and man management credentials at clubs with players unwilling to just accept his view of things and a discipline oriented regime).

He's what we all suspected him of being when he was here: a bog standard manager with a good eye for a bargain and an ability to impose discipline...but only at a certain type/level of football club.

 

[Ihaters]

The Peter Principle applies to Moyes. Promoted above his talents.

On reflection, Moyes was always a very good Championship level manager. Disciplined, defensively good, emphasis on hard work, but limited in their tactical awareness. In essence he took over at Everton when we were, in all but name, a Championship level club. We'd been flirting with that level for years, so it was a good fit for Moyes and us. He came in and made us a very good Championship quality team that competed well above any right it had to expect (with the blip second season left out of the equation). I've always believed the PL (especially back then) to never be of the quality its always afforded. Any club offering a lot of effort and discipline can achieve a fair bit. He got that out of our players and he got a lot of leeway from owners who were not ambitious (on or off the field). It was perfect for him. As soon as he left Everton though he had to show his own coaching credentials (and man management credentials at clubs with players unwilling to just accept his view of things and a discipline oriented regime).

He's what we all suspected him of being when he was here: a bog standard manager with a good eye for a bargain and an ability to impose discipline...but only at a certain type/level of football club.

Was doing well until that.. We finished 4th in a league that has had some of the greatest talent in world football..
Ronaldo, Suarez, Henry etc.. Premier league is and always was a massive step up from Championship.. that's why they would always go straight back down again.

So even his second season was above the level one would expect, with a championship side in the premier league because he stayed up. I guess that would make his some sort of legendary character for having a 'decent' championship level squad constantly near or in the European positions of the Premier League.

 

[blue61]

Moyes should bide his time and wait for Herr Klopp to be run out of town. His record at Castle Greyskull is one I'd love him to build on.

 

[davek]

Was doing well until that.. We finished 4th in a league that has had some of the greatest talent in world football..
Ronaldo, Suarez, Henry etc.. Premier league is and always was a massive step up from Championship.. that's why they would always go straight back down again.

So even his second season was above the level one would expect, with a championship side in the premier league because he stayed up. I guess that would make his some sort of legendary character for having a 'decent' championship level squad constantly near or in the European positions of the Premier League.

4th place on 61 points. Over the last decade that'd have gotten you on average 7th place in the league.

It was a very odd season when a genuine window of opportunity opened up for a 'best of the rest' type of team to secure a CL spot.

Dont misunderstand, though. I believe Moyes was a very good Championship level manager who turned us in the early years into a very good Championship level squad punching above its weight. He thereafter added quality and we became a good standard PL outfit. No question. However (and here's the point) he remained a very good Championship level coach and could never get the best out of the players he assembled in the second half of his time here.