Moyes Though ?

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Aar_the_Toffees said:
The players play for the club, not for Moyes or Martinez.
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No, thats not quite right, the majority play for themselves, they care little for the badge on their shirt and whilst a few might get an attachment to the person next to them, hardly any of them care for the shirt they wear.

Thats fine and I understand it, most of them will have short spells at clubs so its wrong to think they will bond, I mean its just like when you go to work, you dont work for the company, unless its your own, you work hard so you can advance in your career, you do a good job cos your professional and you know the harder you work the higher up the ladder you can go, its the same for footballers IMO.
 

LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
So if we sold Stones for £50m, would that be down to Moyes because he bought him, or would it be down to Martinez who has helped Stones become that £50m player?
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It's a good point you got there. And certainly Martinez would have a bigger role in that sort of transfer. As much as he would have if the case was Barkley. Certainly in these 2 cases Martinez could claim the main share of responsability in the players evaluation.

But Martinez has ZERO responsability on the development of Fellaini, Jelavic, Anichebe or Naismith. And these players were worth a lot of money which has a big influence in Martinez' net spending.

davek said:
Wrong. Moyes had a net spend of £16M for the whole period he was here. There's no question he managed a tight budget and got good PL placings. It's wrong to suggest though that he had nothing to spend. You point to the gross spend of Martinez but fail to point to the gross spend of Moyes. It was £141M.

The truth is that both these managers have done well in the transfer market whilst here in terms of net spend and the quality of squad gained.

That's a long way off the claim that Moyes has some major advantage over Martinez on this issue though.
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Well I can see where's my mistake... I misread the values for the 02/03 season. I read a net spending of 0 when that value was the sales. But there is one detail... I got my data from here http://www.transferleague.co.uk/everton/english-football-teams/everton-transfers and Koldrup sale is signaled as signed with no value. On Wikipedia the sale of Koldrup is said to be 3,6M£. If this is correct the net spending from Moyes should be about 12,5 to 13M£.

But taking your numbers, which are correct, still the average net spending is way, way bigger with Martinez. Moyes would have an average of 1,6M£ a season against the 11M£ from the spaniard. If you take the money of the transfers at the end of Moyes' season... well the gap is even wider.

And let me remind you the net spending for his first 3 years...about 11M£. Even by that era standards it was on the low side of things. Spurs in the same period of time spent 35M£ (net); Newcastle 43M£; Utd 60M£; City 45M£; Liverpool 22M£; Villa 17M£; Chelsea well over 150M£...
 
sotnas said:
It's a good point you got there. And certainly Martinez would have a bigger role in that sort of transfer. As much as he would have if the case was Barkley. Certainly in these 2 cases Martinez could claim the main share of responsability in the players evaluation.

But Martinez has ZERO responsability on the development of Fellaini, Jelavic, Anichebe or Naismith. And these players were worth a lot of money which has a big influence in Martinez' net spending.



Well I can see where's my mistake... I misread the values for the 02/03 season. I read a net spending of 0 when that value was the sales. But there is one detail... I got my data from here http://www.transferleague.co.uk/everton/english-football-teams/everton-transfers and Koldrup sale is signaled as signed with no value. On Wikipedia the sale of Koldrup is said to be 3,6M£. If this is correct the net spending from Moyes should be about 12,5 to 13M£.

But taking your numbers, which are correct, still the average net spending is way, way bigger with Martinez. Moyes would have an average of 1,6M£ a season against the 11M£ from the spaniard. If you take the money of the transfers at the end of Moyes' season... well the gap is even wider.

And let me remind you the net spending for his first 3 years...about 11M£. Even by that era standards it was on the low side of things. Spurs in the same period of time spent 35M£ (net); Newcastle 43M£; Utd 60M£; City 45M£; Liverpool 22M£; Villa 17M£; Chelsea well over 150M£...
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Net spend figures are irrelevant, tottally different markets, and though the figure seems high in recent years, relative to the rest of the league its low
 
sageyefc said:
Net spend figures are irrelevant, tottally different markets, and though the figure seems high in recent years, relative to the rest of the league its low
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Without doing proper figures, we were always lower end spenders in terms of net/transfer fees spent and wages, for both managers, from Moyes time I know we came in at around 12th on average and last thing I saw it was the same for Martinez.

Both Managers have built superb squads with the funds available, they both had their Billys/Kones and both have their Besic/Cahill.

But as it stands, both men failed to get the best of it.
 
sageyefc said:
Net spend figures are irrelevant, tottally different markets, and though the figure seems high in recent years, relative to the rest of the league its low
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Let me tell you where I stand when I see that sort of argument. I'm not english even though I follow Everton since I was kid from very far away, in a time there was no internet.

I was born and raised in Portugal and I'm a fan of Sporting Club of Portugal. I've seen a lot of great young players who fulfiled their potential and others who didn't. Throughout my life I've seen my club fighting with less money than their rivals. And I can assure you one thing: it's possible to do more with less! It takes time and a lot of effort but it's possible to beat the rich boys. This season we spend half of what Benfica spends and about a third of FC Porto and we are top of the table having beaten Benfica 3 times this season in all competitions and beating Porto on 1 occasion. How is that possible? We have been building a side for the past 3 seasons. The squad has about 7 or 8 homegrown players. But the masterstroke was the signing of a new manager: Jorge Jesus. He made all the things come together.

With Moyes you might say that we punched above our weight for a number of seasons. With Martinez is the inverse.

Is Moyes the man to take us further? Probably not. But Martinez has taken us backwards.
 
MACCA75 said:
God only knows where we would have finished if we could have afforded a Lukaku rather than a Saha, an Anichebe or a Jelavic.
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Precisely. Martinez had Lukaku and Moyes didn't. The spaniard made 9 more points. I wonder if Moyes hadn't done the same with a striker banging the goals.

Every time he had a player scoring 11 or more goals he did well in the league. With Yakubu banging them he made 5th in the league.
 

Timak said:
Yes Moyes did always say "40 points is the first target".
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I've always believed that was primarily for media consumption, which obviously got up the noses of some fans as they believed that it dampened expectations. Doubt very much that was the target was given to the team in the privacy of the dressing room.
 

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