Moyes 'The ungrateful irritant'

[zirc]

There is a lot of historical revisionism going on about Moyes style, tactics and abilities. I think he's a very good manager and will probably have success at Utd if he's given time and money to build the squad up. In a footballing sense I didn't have much issue with him. However...

He simply doesn't get Everton, and never has done. He has no sense of history and sees everything through a Premier League-era lens. In his head, there is an established hierarchy and Everton have no business competing with Manchester United, regardless of which team he is in charge of. Hence his complete bewilderment at being given the dogs abuse Wednesday night by the travelling fans. In his head getting a 5th-8th place league finish and a few decent cup runs was the absolute best Everton fans could have hoped for, and have no business aspiring to anything more. In that light, he also believes stringing the fans along over his contract and jumping ship at the first chance along with Mr. "top half is a maassive achievement" shouldn't be seen as an insult either, as (in his head) it was impossible to go any further with Everton.

He believes that Everton were holding him back, while now it's becoming apparent that the reverse was true. He believes his comments about us over the summer were complimentary, when in reality they were condescending.

Everton spent most of Moyes' tenure sucking up to Utd and letting them treat us as a feeder club, and he expected the same to continue when he left. He is getting annoyed because Martinez has the impudence to meet him on the pitch as an equal and not an inferior.

 

[allen]

I think something is brewing with Moyes. He's going to flip... I wouldn't have thought this a few weeks ago, but we might have played his United for the first and last time.

 

[Khalekan]

Love your post, zirc.

IMO the worst thing that has happened to Moyes has been the way Everton have morphed into a slick attacking outfit, playing "sexy soccer" with a team consisting of mainly players he has brought to the club.

When he pointed out the other day about how most of Roberto's team had indeed been "his players" he was merely flagging up his own limitations.

Why could you not have Jags popping up on the edge of the opposition penalty box sliding a pass through to the strike in the 86th minute of a precarioulsy balanced away game, David?

Why could you not have unleashed Ross Barkeley against "lesser" teams last season and build up his confidence instead of waiting until Spurs and Arsenal away before giving him a start?

Why could you not have nipped in ahead of Baggies and taken Romelu on loan last season?

If Everton were floundering at the moment then Moyes's start at United wouldn't look quite so awful.

Alas for him, the reverse is the case and the Moyes myth is unravelling in quick time.

 

[Ihaters]

Agree with Moutsgoat, Sanctioned and Zircs posts.

One question for the others... after saying everything you can think of, correct or not, factual or opinion, to slam Moyes to the point your just constantly repeating yourselves. Do you not think its time to go fully positive for Martinez instead of lacing it all with negativity?
Is it not time to claim Barkley is simply a great young talent, instead of a great young talent Moyes wouldn't of played?
Isn't it time to be saying that was an ace win, instead of an ace win Moyes would of bottled and defended for the draw.... every single time we win!!! He did win some games you know.
Isn't if time not to be saying its better than it was...but instead to just be saying.....
Its absolutely fking ace right now... period.
Live in the moment, reflect on the past, get excited about the future, but stop drowning the present in the history of Moyes, it detracts from the beauty of what's currently happening.

As the saying goes:
Yesterday is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery
Today is a Gift, that's why
its called the Present!

Just enjoy the Martinez gift.

 

[davek]

There is a lot of historical revisionism going on about Moyes style, tactics and abilities. I think he's a very good manager and will probably have success at Utd if he's given time and money to build the squad up. In a footballing sense I didn't have much issue with him. However...

He simply doesn't get Everton, and never has done. He has no sense of history and sees everything through a Premier League-era lens. In his head, there is an established hierarchy and Everton have no business competing with Manchester United, regardless of which team he is in charge of. Hence his complete bewilderment at being given the dogs abuse Wednesday night by the travelling fans. In his head getting a 5th-8th place league finish and a few decent cup runs was the absolute best Everton fans could have hoped for, and have no business aspiring to anything more. In that light, he also believes stringing the fans along over his contract and jumping ship at the first chance along with Mr. "top half is a maassive achievement" shouldn't be seen as an insult either, as (in his head) it was impossible to go any further with Everton.

He believes that Everton were holding him back, while now it's becoming apparent that the reverse was true. He believes his comments about us over the summer were complimentary, when in reality they were condescending.

Everton spent most of Moyes' tenure sucking up to Utd and letting them treat us as a feeder club, and he expected the same to continue when he left. He is getting annoyed because Martinez has the impudence to meet him on the pitch as an equal and not an inferior.

I think that was Moyes greatest success at Everton: that he convincingly persuaded nearly everyone that without billionaire cash we couldn't grab a higher place finish consistently. It's right at the heart of why he never ever rocked the boat with Kenwright about getting a little more investment in - because (in the unlikely event it was secured) it would endanger his control over the situation if he couldn't make the next stage with it. In reality it was all he could do under those limitations - the limitations of a little less cash and his own tactical weaknesses.

 

[Ihaters]

I was a Moyes fan, hand up. I do appreciate what he did here. But he made a choice, and has continued to make choices, and those choices have consequences. He doesn't get to have it both ways. He doesn't get to leave us, and act condescendingly towards us, and expect us not to react negatively.

You don't get to leave your wife for a woman you perceive as prettier, or smarter, or "better", and have your ex-wife treat you as if you'd never left. At some point she moves on, but at first she's going to perceive you as a dick. And when her new boyfriend gives her orgasms you never did, she's going to feel a little smug when your new wife doesn't turn out to be as "perfect" as you thought she was.

Yeah but her awesome new orgasms would be twice as good if she stopped thinking about you during them.

 

[Ihaters]

I think that was Moyes greatest success at Everton: that he convincingly persuaded nearly everyone that without billionaire cash we couldn't grab a higher place finish consistently. It's right at the heart of why he never ever rocked the boat with Kenwright about getting a little more investment in - because (in the unlikely event it was secured) it would endanger his control over the situation if he couldn't make the next stage with it. In reality it was all he could do under those limitations - the limitations of a little less cash and his own tactical weaknesses.

I would of thought taking us from relegation battles to Champions league qualifiers with fk all money is a bigger success.

 

[maccavennie]

There is a lot of historical revisionism going on about Moyes style, tactics and abilities. I think he's a very good manager and will probably have success at Utd if he's given time and money to build the squad up. In a footballing sense I didn't have much issue with him. However...

He simply doesn't get Everton, and never has done. He has no sense of history and sees everything through a Premier League-era lens. In his head, there is an established hierarchy and Everton have no business competing with Manchester United, regardless of which team he is in charge of. Hence his complete bewilderment at being given the dogs abuse Wednesday night by the travelling fans. In his head getting a 5th-8th place league finish and a few decent cup runs was the absolute best Everton fans could have hoped for, and have no business aspiring to anything more. In that light, he also believes stringing the fans along over his contract and jumping ship at the first chance along with Mr. "top half is a maassive achievement" shouldn't be seen as an insult either, as (in his head) it was impossible to go any further with Everton.

He believes that Everton were holding him back, while now it's becoming apparent that the reverse was true. He believes his comments about us over the summer were complimentary, when in reality they were condescending.

Everton spent most of Moyes' tenure sucking up to Utd and letting them treat us as a feeder club, and he expected the same to continue when he left. He is getting annoyed because Martinez has the impudence to meet him on the pitch as an equal and not an inferior.

Brilliant post mate and you have touched upon certain things which is why he's getting it in the neck.

The constant "we need to manage over expectations", the "let's get to 40 points" smacked of a small time mentality, Neville's "a top 10 finish is an achievement" etc etc. The one for me was the "I know how Everton works and Martinez will find that out" was arrogant and a poor dig at a new manager. He needs to take a good look at himself and wonder how from being given a standing ovation against West Ham to getting booed how and why that happened. He's ****ing deluded if he thinks those boos were just random and he will find it out on a larger scale in April if he's still in a job. Even Martinez today at his press conference said he wants to raise expectations and not dampen them and that's what players want to hear and fans. If someone tells you day in day out that you ain't good enough to compete with the big boys then after a while your going to believe them. If someone says you can be the very best and a winner day in day out that will give you a positive mindset. They are poles apart in mentality and I liked Moyes and supported him and we had some great wins and performances ( a few actually came after ****house performances like Wigan fa cup and the ****e semi final ). We can't win every game but there's no reason why we can't at least try and give everyone a game. The relief at winning at the mancs was immense and the belief that should give the players and the fans can't be under estimated.

 

[zebedee]

Nice point of view Zirc I like it! I'll never forget his face on SP1 sipping Champagne smug as **** when being interviewed by Andy Gray after finishing 4th. Personally I think some of the backroom staff he drags around with him are the problem. Irvine leaves and replace him someone like Round with his Dr Dre beats hanging around his neck 24/7 ???

 

[Republic Of Leodensia]

Manchester United appointed him because of this romatic notion of having a Scottish manager with suppsoed socialist beliefs. Fact is, the game has evolved in England so much over the past ten years and has developed a huge foreign influence. That's why Everton have progressed under Martinez.

Even when you watched Manchester United in Ferguson's later years they had a boring, rigid style of play, even in the seasons where they would win the league. They were good at grinding the results out but lacked a flair that Ancelotti's Chelsea or Mancini's Manchester City had.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Love your post, zirc.

IMO the worst thing that has happened to Moyes has been the way Everton have morphed into a slick attacking outfit, playing "sexy soccer" with a team consisting of mainly players he has brought to the club.

When he pointed out the other day about how most of Roberto's team had indeed been "his players" he was merely flagging up his own limitations.

Why could you not have Jags popping up on the edge of the opposition penalty box sliding a pass through to the strike in the 86th minute of a precarioulsy balanced away game, David?

Why could you not have unleashed Ross Barkeley against "lesser" teams last season and build up his confidence instead of waiting until Spurs and Arsenal away before giving him a start?

Why could you not have nipped in ahead of Baggies and taken Romelu on loan last season?

If Everton were floundering at the moment then Moyes's start at United wouldn't look quite so awful.

Alas for him, the reverse is the case and the Moyes myth is unravelling in quick time.

I make you 100% correct there mate.

Martinez has surprised me tbh, not only with the quality of what he's delivering but also at the pace with which he's brought about the change.

There's undoubtedly going to be a reality check around the corner at some point, but he's given us enough already for us to be able to accept that imo, as we can see what he's trying to achieve. Evertonians are generally an educated crowd & this fella looks like he's capable of bringing back some great days, to our great club.

We just need someone in the boardroom who's of the same calibre now, who can match his vision & ambition.

 

[davek]

I would of thought taking us from relegation battles to Champions league qualifiers with fk all money is a bigger success.

Yes, you're quite right. It was.

Persuading everyone we're second rate and not worthy was his next biggest accomplishment though.

 

[Stelly]

Any of you guys seen the latest comments from a drunk Moyes in Manchester bar??

 

[nigelcoyb]

Moyes will be criticised forever because giving us "stability" in no way balances:

mostly dreadful football

winning nothing

using the club as a waiting room till his pal retired

never empathising with the club in any way shape or form

Lieing through his back teeth

Tapping up "our" players

Choking in almost every "big" game

Deferring cravenly to certain clubs

Insulting the very institution that made him a multi millionaire as soon as out the door

The issue for some is "his" EFC was so non-descript that chanting "stability .. stability ... stability" for years and years without any hope of progress was the very definition of grim.

Someone exploding the excuses like Martinez restores perspective but in that moment of clarity the realisation dawns that possibly a decade has been wasted, Moyes revisited is unedifying even to his most loyal supporters.

He deserves all the odium he is getting and WILL always receive - dreadful man who will be judged very harshly in EFC history.

 

[Khalekan]

Someone exploding the excuses like Martinez restores perspective but in that moment of clarity the realisation dawns that possibly a decade has been wasted, Moyes revisited is unedifying even to his most loyal supporters.

He deserves all the odium he is getting and WILL always receive - dreadful man who will be judged very harshly in EFC history.

Great post.

Would take issue about a whole "decade" possibly being "wasted" but I would have no problem concurring that the past half decade has indeed been wasted.