Moyes: the devil incarnate?

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Nebbiolo

Valuation: £108 million
For fear of getting a good cyber-kicking, especially from Halewood, it’s occurred to me that one of the chief problems in our summer of no signings (and the leakage of first team players over the past months) might – that’s might – be the Messiah himself, David Moyes.

It seems clear that Moyes does have money to spend as this has been blasted over the OS site a number of times. It is equally obvious, given that Moutinho has been a chief target, that we have a decent enough wedge. So what has Moyes been doing all this time? To my mind, you make a long list of potential targets and when it becomes apparent that individuals on that list are becoming too high maintenance, then you move on down it. What you ought not to do, is spend a summer fixated on specific faces and neglect plan Bs and Cs. Now we all know Moyes’ strengths but little has been said about his weaknesses lately. Unsurprisingly, his sterling performance over the last two seasons have made us rejoice in what we have, which is a damned good manager. But here’s the thing, I think Moyes is weak in the market and at making his mind up. A great manager should be able to identify a pool of talent and to be able convince it that the future is Everton. I don’t think Moyes is great at doing that. In fact, I would say that, as slippery as he is, that is more Kenwrights department, assuming Moyes actually gives him the nod on someone that might actually want to play for us.

I’m also getting a bit annoyed that Moyes hasn’t yet signed his contract. We’ve stood by him through really difficult times, as did Kenwright when many other chairmen would have booted him out. We let him lose the dressing room, Rooney’s respect, nearly get us relegated (in most years we would have been relegated) and balls up on adding a necessary striker during our attempt at Champions League soccer (a whole summer and he got precisely nothing). Kenwright even, if the rumours are true, talked him into staying on when it all got too much for Moyes, when he nearly buckled under the pressure. I just think Moyes ought to show us all some loyalty. I also believe that if he walked, it would be the biggest mistake of his career. There are no Man Uniteds waiting in the wings for him to be free. At best, Moyes is heading north to Glasgow, which is hardly a step up the greasy management pole.

This is just a theory of mine and I realise that there are varying factors involved in where we are now. And, in addition, I accept that Moyes has been a great manager up until this point. I also want him to sign that sodding contract and remain our manager for many years to come. I just don’t think he’s perfect and I’ve explained why above.

IMWT
 

For fear of getting a good cyber-kicking, especially from Halewood, it’s occurred to me that one of the chief problems in our summer of no signings (and the leakage of first team players over the past months) might – that’s might – be the Messiah himself, David Moyes.

It seems clear that Moyes does have money to spend as this has been blasted over the OS site a number of times. It is equally obvious, given that Moutinho has been a chief target, that we have a decent enough wedge. So what has Moyes been doing all this time? To my mind, you make a long list of potential targets and when it becomes apparent that individuals on that list are becoming too high maintenance, then you move on down it. What you ought not to do, is spend a summer fixated on specific faces and neglect plan Bs and Cs. Now we all know Moyes’ strengths but little has been said about his weaknesses lately. Unsurprisingly, his sterling performance over the last two seasons have made us rejoice in what we have, which is a damned good manager. But here’s the thing, I think Moyes is weak in the market and at making his mind up. A great manager should be able to identify a pool of talent and to be able convince it that the future is Everton. I don’t think Moyes is great at doing that. In fact, I would say that, as slippery as he is, that is more Kenwrights department, assuming Moyes actually gives him the nod on someone that might actually want to play for us.

I’m also getting a bit annoyed that Moyes hasn’t yet signed his contract. We’ve stood by him through really difficult times, as did Kenwright when many other chairmen would have booted him out. We let him lose the dressing room, Rooney’s respect, nearly get us relegated (in most years we would have been relegated) and balls up on adding a necessary striker during our attempt at Champions League soccer (a whole summer and he got precisely nothing). Kenwright even, if the rumours are true, talked him into staying on when it all got too much for Moyes, when he nearly buckled under the pressure. I just think Moyes ought to show us all some loyalty. I also believe that if he walked, it would be the biggest mistake of his career. There are no Man Uniteds waiting in the wings for him to be free. At best, Moyes is heading north to Glasgow, which is hardly a step up the greasy management pole.

This is just a theory of mine and I realise that there are varying factors involved in where we are now. And, in addition, I accept that Moyes has been a great manager up until this point. I also want him to sign that sodding contract and remain our manager for many years to come. I just don’t think he’s perfect and I’ve explained why above.

IMWT

Completely agree, i think it is Moyes who has not signed any players, Kenwright has gave him the money.
 
I have to disagree about Moyes being weak in the market, like you have said a good manager should be able to pinpoint a pool of talent in the market and convince them Everton is the way forward. Well Love, Moutinhio and M'Bia all seem to have the talent and they have all expressed a desire to come over so id say Moyes has done his job there, completeing the rest of it is surely the job of agents and chairmen.

As for dithering well if hes picked his men and they are up for coming surely the stall is all about money which lets face it moyes probably has very little control over.

Also losing the respect of Rooney? He was a [Poor language removed] kid when he was with us and it was his own arrogance that caused the rift, he would have benefited another season with us to curb his anger and gain some humility. Theres no place in Everton for anyone who thinks they are bigger than the club and thats the line Moyes holds which i respect, like he says if u dont want to play for the team, dont.

As for not signing the contact well i'm with you mate, its getting a little frustating and surely there cant be much debate on terms etc, BK knows he needs DM and will prob meet any reasonable demands. I'm also starting to think its down to DM why there is no new contract...
 
disagree about rooney.

i'd love to read moyes' autobiography with the chapter entitled 'pre-season 2008'. i'd love to know what exactly happened behind the scenes.

if the money is there then the buck does have to stop with the manager.

imagine kenwright signed players behind his back. there would be murder.

i am just going to lay off moysey until the window shuts.
 

I agree and disagree. But I dont think there are any major conspiracies behind the scene, I think Moyes money to spend but we've not agreed on prices for anyone. You only have to look at what we bid and what the clubs come out in the papers and ask for.

It depends on which way you look at it, but Moyes wont pay over what he feels a player is worth...and it comes down to that really. Surely his record with us has shown that on every single purchase he has made.

Clubs are holding our for more and we're not begging, we're giving them our offer and we're playing hardball. Thats the David Moyes way, like it or hate it, thats the way he does things.
 
disagree about rooney.

i'd love to read moyes' autobiography with the chapter entitled 'pre-season 2008'. i'd love to know what exactly happened behind the scenes.

if the money is there then the buck does have to stop with the manager.

imagine kenwright signed players behind his back. there would be murder.

i am just going to lay off moysey until the window shuts.

Fully agree. As I know, it's enormously frustrating reading all the rumours and not signing anyone, I still believe Moyes will get the quality players in that he wants. Maybe I'm looking through blue tinted glasses here, but I honestly fail to see, in what way a lot of our rivals have strenghtened. For me Villa, Blackburn and Portsmouth haven't signed anyone who I'd consider an improvement on our current squad. City have signed Jo, who seems to have a lot of potential. Only team that has really bought players I had loved to see at Everton are Spurs. However, they lost a couple of very good players also.
 
Moyes might have something to do with us not signing anyone, but as Sim said.. it might be because his valuation is very different from the sellers. Just look at how much value we give players when we talk about possible transfers. "For £2M I'd get him but for £4M?". I think that we might have seen someone sign for us but for a inlated pricetag and then we'd have some who would moan due to us splashing too much cash on that player when we could have gotten another.

Don't imsunderstand me.. I think our squad are way to thin to enable us to keep hold on fifth spot, if we don't get numbers and quality in, I can see us miss out on Europe 09/10 season and an early bow out in the cups this one.. simply due to lack of numbers and backup for our first 11 (that's very good)
 
Interesting title. Well you dont win anything in the first half of the year, and there are still days left yet in this window.

I was thinking about being a supporter and how you want the best. It is showing from the top to be patient in getting what they want, and we need more of that here. It shows nerves of steel to flirt with danger. Sure we could have been 'safe' and drafted in the teds who would have done average jobs.

Were going for the big fish now.

Patience.
 
It seems clear that Moyes does have money to spend as this has been blasted over the OS site a number of times. It is equally obvious, given that Moutinho has been a chief target, that we have a decent enough wedge.
Just because something is blasted on the OS doesn't make it true. It's about as believable as that Iraqi guy telling they are winning the war when Abrams tanks were in Baghdad's suburbs.

The Moutinho deal; unless you know what sort of offer it was, you can't make that claim. It could have been something like 3 million up front, and two million for the next three years and the rest are add-ons.

So what has Moyes been doing all this time? To my mind, you make a long list of potential targets and when it becomes apparent that individuals on that list are becoming too high maintenance, then you move on down it.
Are you suggesting Moyes handles the transfer negotiations?

A great manager should be able to identify a pool of talent
Wasn't it reported after the season that Moyes had handed Kenwright a list of targets, was it 25 names long or so? Effectively doing exactly what you ask him to do.

I’m also getting a bit annoyed that Moyes hasn’t yet signed his contract.
You might want to think why this is.

We’ve stood by him through really difficult times, as did Kenwright when many other chairmen would have booted him out. We let him lose the dressing room, Rooney’s respect, nearly get us relegated (in most years we would have been relegated) and balls up on adding a necessary striker during our attempt at Champions League soccer (a whole summer and he got precisely nothing).
Well, the team we lost out to got into the semi-finals so you could argue Everton was very unlucky in the draw by getting the worst possible opponent at that stage.

Kenwright even, if the rumours are true, talked him into staying on when it all got too much for Moyes, when he nearly buckled under the pressure. I just think Moyes ought to show us all some loyalty.
You don't think staying at the club this long despite having a minimal transfer budget isn't loyalty? Should he sign for life?
 

I agree that the market has been a bit wild lately. Looking at some of the sums paid out for decent players like, for example, Keane, is just absurd. However, we are in a position where we have been letting important first team fringe players leave and have not reinvested that cash in either better players or similarly good ones. It leaves us sorely lacking in depth this season. Moyes has sanctioned this but has not brought any one in to offer adequate cover. Neither has he unearthed anyone to take us to the next level. We need either or, preferably, both of these types. At the moment we've got a thin squad that is already affected by injuries. For 60k a week Moyes is employed to do the best he can in bringing the squad to a level that can cope with the demands of the coming season. At the moment, he's not doing what is required of him. It's no good going around offering deals to people that are either: (1) not interested; (2) not interested for the salary on the table; or (3) unavailable for the amount we want to invest. We need to deal in the current market place and that might mean Moutinho, Jo, Love, Arshavin et al are not available for us at this time. It's simple economics, we shop where we can afford to. Or, we shop where items are available. Now I know that Big Sam and Big Harry are devious gets and I wouldn't swap our David for either. But one thing these guys can do is persuade reasonably talented players that coming to their clubs would be a win-win situation. Perhaps Moyes needs to sharpen his skills in that area. Perhaps he needs to think about romancing one or two flair players instead of, from the off, giving out that dour Scottish presbyterian attitude. I'm not saying that his protestant work ethic is all wrong. But cutting loose a little can do wonders to team morale and spirit.

But then I'm probably hopelessly wrong and deserve getting my head kicked in. :lol:
 
Fully agree. As I know, it's enormously frustrating reading all the rumours and not signing anyone, I still believe Moyes will get the quality players in that he wants. Maybe I'm looking through blue tinted glasses here, but I honestly fail to see, in what way a lot of our rivals have strenghtened. For me Villa, Blackburn and Portsmouth haven't signed anyone who I'd consider an improvement on our current squad. City have signed Jo, who seems to have a lot of potential. Only team that has really bought players I had loved to see at Everton are Spurs. However, they lost a couple of very good players also.


I agree on Blackburn and Pompey, but i think villa has done a really good job this summer. Widen the squad with versatile good players, no starnames, but players with a lot of potential. I see them as ahead of us right now.
 
I agree on Blackburn and Pompey, but i think villa has done a really good job this summer. Widen the squad with versatile good players, no starnames, but players with a lot of potential. I see them as ahead of us right now.

At the moment they probably are, I agree. At least they have a bigger squad compared to ours. Player by player however, I feel we still have the edge over them, it's just when injuries come kicking in, we might lose out to them. As said, I'm still very hopefull we'll get the quality of players in, Moyes said he was looking out for. If we'll be able to sign players of the calibre of Mbia, Cana, Moutinho, Fernandes (refuse to give up hope:D) and Love, we're does that leave them with signings like Sidwell, Davies and Young? If we don't get the kind of players mentioned in before August 31, then might it be time to panic.
 
At the moment they probably are, I agree. At least they have a bigger squad compared to ours. Player by player however, I feel we still have the edge over them, it's just when injuries come kicking in, we might lose out to them. As said, I'm still very hopefull we'll get the quality of players in, Moyes said he was looking out for. If we'll be able to sign players of the calibre of Mbia, Cana, Moutinho, Fernandes (refuse to give up hope:D) and Love, we're does that leave them with signings like Sidwell, Davies and Young? If we don't get the kind of players mentioned in before August 31, then might it be time to panic.

But it seems increasingly likely that we will not be getting any of the above players. Hence, I would say it leaves Villa slightly stronger than we are. That is, they have gone from being the weaker side last season, to the stronger side this season. Or are you saying that just so long as we covet top players, then we automatically gain an advantage somehow?
 
But it seems increasingly likely that we will not be getting any of the above players. Hence, I would say it leaves Villa slightly stronger than we are. That is, they have gone from being the weaker side last season, to the stronger side this season. Or are you saying that just so long as we covet top players, then we automatically gain an advantage somehow?

No mate I think you misunderstood me. If at the end of the transfer window we haven't signed anyone of that calibre (which I still believe we will), Aston Villa probably will hold the edge over us. Was talking about our first eleven, who I believe, are a stronger unit than Aston Villa's starting 11. However as a squad Villa will have a lot more options than us. Mind you I'm a very optimistic person by nature.:lol:(y)
 

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